Completely rethought Marines and Paratroops

[Lockesdonkey]

The current system of Marines and Paratroops does not accurately represent the basic fact that they are otherwise ordinary troops who have some special training. Thus, I propose the following plan:

The Naval Academy and Air Academy, in addition to serving as Military Acadamies which produce Fleets (Armies for sea units) and Wings (Armies for air units) respectively, may also train certain types of units as Marines and Paratroops, respectively. Most land units may be trained as Marines; only foot units can be trained to Paradrop (duh). A unit that becomes a Marine or Paratrooper would lose some of its A/D, but not much. However, in order to become a Marine or Paratrooper, you must send that unit to the Naval Acadamy or Air Academy, and then give it the order, "train as Marine" or "train as Paratrooper". To train as a Marine will require half the time it would take to build that unit in that city (for example, if it cost 120 sheilds to build the unit, and the city produces 20, it would take three turns to train it as a Marine), and two-thirds for a Paratrooper (continuing our example, the same unit would require four turns to train as a Paratrooper). Please note, however, that no sheilds are deducted from that city. Instead, a fixed amount of money is required per turn to train the units.

So what's the benefit of all this? Simple. A more diverse set of units with ship-to-shore capability, allowing you to do D-Day-style invasions without having to mod a bunch of units, and the ability create a diverse instant-action force that is quickly deployable as long as it is near an airport (and I think that there should be some kind of provision that Aircraft Carriers can carry Paratroops)

 

[sengfossil]

Although it sounds interesting, I partly disagree. First, IMHO not every land unit can be trained as paratroups or marines, the represent in most armies a kind of elite soldiers. Hand selected strong and healty guys.
Second, you said: "you must send that unit to the Naval Acadamy or Air Academy". How exactly would you do that? It doesn't fit much with the actually game principles.

Never than less, I feel both units in civ 3 underpowered, and I seldom use them. Some improvements to make them more tactical unefull would be apreciated.
perhaps paratroups and marines need powerfull upgrades, like "motorized paratroups" and "motorized marines".

 

[Lockesdonkey]

I said only foot units can become Paratroops, and most but not all land units can be trained as Marines. You do pick which units become Marines and Paratroops, and by send them to the Academy, I mean send them to the city in which the Naval or Air Academy is located.

 

[Commander Bello]

I have to disagree with this idea, as once again it seems pretty much to be concentrated on the human aspect.
As the AI would have to deal with the same features, we can already assume that this will not work (at least not in the near future), as this will require considerably strong strategic thinking.

Sorry, but

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Plan: AI always designates X pecent of its Veteran and Elite eligible units as Paradrop and Marine.

Plan solves since the AI rarely uses these units in Civ3 and chances are the same will hold true in Civ4, this will serve its purpose of making the threat of amphibious/paradrop assault just a little bit scarier, regardless of who has them, human or AI.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

You know, paratroops would be FINE as they are IF the game had some kind of supply line/operational range system. If this were the case, then Paratroopers would be perfect for going DEEP behind enemy lines and disrupting the organisation and infrastructure of their frontlines-whilst also setting up 'command posts' to allow your frontline troops to operate as though they were 'in-supply'.
Hope that makes sense.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Commander Bello]

The problem I see is not that the AI wouldn't use any given paratrooper or marine, but that it will not be able to determine, when and for how many units it would make sense to shift them around all over the globe to visit those training facilities, spend some money to actually reduce their combat strength, and then to use exactly those units for the purpose of conducting airdrop or maritime landing sessions.

 

[searcheagle]

The issue with marines and paratroopers isn't just the that they are foot soldiers, not just that they are elite, but also the special equipment devoted to them. Marines have landing craft, ships, support ships, armor, etc. Paratroopers have aircraft, parachutes, etc. These all in addition seperate these units from ordinary units and a small wonder should not give them this ability. It should remain something that would have to be created to keep it special.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

And the investment of cash represents what? The addition of such equipment. Again, I am sick and tired of a useless marine corps and even more useless paradrops. If you like, we can increase support payments for those units.

Commander Bello, these are not intractible problems you have raised. I'm too tired to talk about possible solutions, though.

 

[rhialto]

In a gme that had variable unit support costs, I think it would be quite realistic for marines and paras to have better stats and higher support costs. I can even imagine these guys having better stats in one area and worse in another. Perhaps marines, being trained for heavy assault under fire, aren't so good for police work.

 

[MarineCorps]

The current system of Marines and Paratroops does not accurately represent the basic fact that they are otherwise ordinary troops who have some special training.

The Army is nothing but a bunch of *******. Marines are not ordinary troops with some specilized training. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps

 

[rhialto]

And since when has the USMC been the model for every marines unit on the face of the planet? If you're going to post a link about a generic unit, make it generically relevant eh?

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Well, if you want to be TRULY historically accurate here, Marines were originally ORDINARY soldiers who used to be stationed on sailing vessels-and were used to board enemy vessels, defend their own vessels from enemy boarding parties, and would often sit amongst the sails to sharpshoot specific targets on enemy vessels (like the Helmsman or the First Officer). It was only much, MUCH latter that armies began to develop a specific Marine Corps for landing operations. It was Britain, and not the US, who actually began the 'Marine Tradition'-though it was the US who developed to its 'logical extreme'.
Anyway, on another point, I am a very VERY strong advocate for variable maintainance costs for units !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[troytheface]

paratroops would be fine as they are if there was not infinite railroad movement. Marines are ok as well. However, a naval academy and air force academy are solid ideas and make sense- how much easier it would be to put planes in a squadern and launch a bombing run (if there were fighters in the sqaudern then the range would be limited- ergo some would like to have only bombers- which would make the air war fun instead of tedious- same with navy-