Continents map - I'm gonna lost. I need advices!

[Winth]

I chose the game to start on Continents. Difficulty - Warlord. Leader - Isabella of the Spanish. Without expansion pack(s). I chose Spaniards, because of Mysticism (I wanted to found every single religion in the game). With help of two Great Priests, I achieved every religion, converted into Christianity and started to pump out Missionaries to get good relationship with my neighbors. On my island, there was Kublai Khan, Napoleon, and Cyrus of the Persian. I was at start peaceful. With such a great teching, I was leading on the scoreboard about 300 points declassing my rivals.

But when I invented Optics, I discovered with my caravel a new civilization - the English, on the second continent. The game poked fun on me - it landed Elizabeth alone on the continent, and she grab the control all over it However, I was still leading in scoreboard - not for long. Elizabeth, though with a lack of some medieval techs (Divine Right), got her hands on Industralism (Tanks!) and soon she was beating me down by about 400 points! There are about 85 turns to end the game as a "Time" result, and I'm losing to Elizabeth. Desperatively, I tried to destroy Napoleon (which succeed, he has now only two cities on such a pitiful little islands without any resources), and tried to take out Cyrus with his three cities (though very big and well-protected). I failed. Now I'm a bit of screwed. I have created the Techs up to Rocketry, now making Industralism. What can save my butt? Maybe a space race or possibly an UN voting (I have good relations with my rivals but Napoleon, who is now a whiny crybaby, Furious piece of crap.)? Conquest would take too long...

My civilization took about half of the continent on it is, thanks to the French conquest.

 

[Cam_H]

Do you have Fission and Uranium?

 

[Winth]

Nnnnnnnope. Persians do have, and I have problems beating them down.

 

[AThousandYoung]

Spend the next 70 turns building a huge army and hit England hard. The Spanish Armada shall strike again!

 

[Cam_H]

I think it would help if you posted the game as, despite your good narrative, it's still a bit hard to see where you're at. I'm surprised that you're not close already to winning by Domination.

(1.) Score is somewhat misleading. Just because you're #2 in score, it does not mean that you're in the second best position to win the game (unless you're in the 2040's!). Do not become fixated with score, as a good or bad burst of 20 turns can change the face of the game completely. Score does not really assess your tactical position. Score does not have a vision for your future plans.

(2.) You're on the way to Industrialism and have Rocketry - you will soon have much of the firepower you need until England develops Composites and/or Robotics. As AThousandYoung suggests, you can start preparing for a massive invasion, while having a fleet of Battleships ensuring that England does not send troops to your continent. With the navy - just as you should on land - attack with numbers. Build Drydocks for your naval pump cities. Do you have Flight for Gunships?

(3.) I just wanted to know if you were able to build ICBMs. It's the ultimate game-saver. Drop six of these babies successfully on English turf and it will take a long time for it to recover. On 'vanilla' it's a cheap ploy, as the AI fails to respond appropriately, although you've pretty well ensured that good relations are 'out the window' once you enter into nuclear warfare.

 

[Winth]

And, as it would have been expected, I lost. I pumped out Infantries and Tanks. When I started to build Transports, I went very short on time. Went for Elizabeth and builded UN. That scum Kublai Khan abstained from voting at me (though he was Pleased at me), and Elizabeth wiped me out. Darn it. Well hello, Isabella the Dan Quayle.

I know I suck, poke fun at me for short

Geez... this game is harsh. You won't believe that I lost at Noble on a Duel map with Julius Caesar as opponent. I can't develop a strategy since I don't know what should I pursue.

Here's my another question - what is the advantage of that Expansive trait? I tried Julius Caesar several times and I lost shortly. Expansive sucks, or am I so weak that I can't pump out good from that trait? (that second seems more probable).

 

[Cam_H]

Winth,

I'm not sure exactly what could be causing you so many problems without seeing one of your games (ideally in the mid-game). Perhaps Sisiutil's Strategy Guide would be worth going through if you've yet to see it.

As for the Expansive trait, it's admittedly a bit more useful at the Prince+ levels when becomes a bit more problematic.

It has an excellent fast-build improvement in the Granary, and a good fast-build improvement in the Harbor. In addition to the benefits, Granaries quickly re-build population after whipping or surge population growth in otherwise -poor cities, while the bonus from Harbors is a really nice 'almost hidden' benefit, especially in commercially-focussed coastals (throw in The Great Lighthouse for another booster).

Once you get Hereditary Rule (or Pyramids > Representation) then you can build some pretty big cities due to both and benefits - which are typically developed enough to have 'multiplier' buildings adding to the cities' value. Settling in Floodplains or Jungles is less problematic, while you can chop more furiously and not unduly suffer from the loss from losing forests. Similarly, non-freshwater city sites are less of issue. -farms often have The Globe Theatre, and therefore your main constraint on maximising their size is - again part-offset by the Expansive trait, as might be the case with your Ironworks city.

 

[Winth]

I have been practised for one week (playing on Warlord and Noble)... and by that week I achieved win only with Napoleon on Warlord with ridiculously low state on points. Readed many guides, but I think that if someone would be nice to look my save (from old 1.52, I suppose, sorry).

http://rapidshare.com/files/45153202/Frederick.Civ4SavedGame.html

By the way, if I am going some serious GP Farming, do I undoubtedly need Philosophical guy?

 

[madscientist]

Without looking at the game here is some advice on playing Isabella.

1) She is the best equipped AI regardless of expansion pack/patch to found one of the 2 early religions, so research meditation or polytheism. Starting with fishing allows you to work a water tile for additional early cemmerce to ensure you get the religion.
2) If you run priest specialists to produce a great prophet, use the prophet to build the buddhist or hindu shrine. Discovering christianity is fine but you are really avoiding Isabella'a strength, the early religion.
3) Expansive, lot's of health early. As said early expect larger cities once you have monarchy. This will result in higher maintenance costs which can be offset by building teh shrine.

Just some pointers on playing Isabella.

 

[AlessioCerci]

Cottages!!!

 

[Cam_H]

Winth,

I've had a look at your game as it stands, and I'd say that your game could be strengthened by thinking about;

Hook up resources: Your cities are suffering yet you haven't sent out a Work Boat for the Fish or put a road to the Sheep. More concerning however is that your Iron Mine isn't hooked up.

You've been too passive. Rome as a neighbour is never great as JC tends to horde units. Rome with Iron as a neighbour is even less great. Unfortunately for you though, attacking Rome is your only option for now (other than starting with the Barbarian city). Four cities in the 15th Century is not going to win you the game under 'normal' circumstances. You're building Cats (albeit Hamburg's not really designed for that), which is right, and you should start on Macemen too to develop a SoD to start taking Roman cities. Your longer term option if you don't want to tackle Rome at all is to bee-line Astronomy and start preparing for an inter-continental invasion. In short - you need more cities.

Technology: Optics for Caravels and seeking out trading opportunities would be the go here. Trade Music for Compass with Rome. I'm assuming you're going after Liberalism? Incidently, 1400AD for Currency is too late. You've got so few cities that the over-expansion trap hasn't touched you, but this is an important technology to get earlier.

Berlin as your farm. When running Bureaucracy, you get a bonus on and - yet Berlin isn't leveraging this civic, and focussed on s and (although I think you didn't get an especially great starting tile either which doesn't help). While Great Merchants are great, I'm not sure why you're putting so much effort into popping one of these at this stage - you're a long way from Economics, while a Trade Mission to Rome isn't going to yield too much. Perhaps you're working your way towards Optics for an inter-continental Trade Mission? Restructure Berlin to better leverage the Bureaucracy civic, or consider moving the Palace to Munich.

Munich as a unit pump. This is your only -oriented city, but is running two Specialist Scientists and has Cottages. I would specialise this city with and , and have it churning out units. Try to get a 10XP unit for the Heroic Epic - upgrade your most promoted Axe to a Maceman and hit the Barbarian city.

Hamburg as a commerce centre. Beyond the Work Boat, this city needs a Library in light of cottage spam.

Consider Slavery. Popping more Great People might be fine, but you're lacking some infrastructure and a serious offensive military presence. You have big populations and two cities are suffering from health issues. I'd suggest looking at ways to hurry productivity, and Slavery is really good for that.​

I know this all sounds a bit critical, but it's intended to provide pointers to improve your game. Best of luck!

 

[Winth]

Thank you. Although I see that this game is practically lost, I have to tell another questions (unless you will ban me )

1: How to grow a production city? Should I chop down trees or let them grow, only to be used by my citizen?
2: How you are achieving those biiiig numbers? I can't imagine what it takes to have Mass Media in early 1900, or even in 1850! Or 20-sized city in 1700!
3: Is it worth it to first build many farms and after big growing, build cottages? (after I can fully use the tiles, probably in 19-20).
4: When I am playing, usually I get three cities, maybe four, then I can't expand, because other civilizations have actually claimed the terrain. I don't get that overexpansion thing, but still I can't colonize other important terrains.
5: Is it worth it to make cities at good positions or to lock civs at their positions, but very far away from the capital?
6: I don't know how to use Slavery efficiently at start, just to build those Axemen to wipe off leaders who may be a threat in future (Mansa Musa, the tech scum... who always seems to spawn in my games...). I suppose it has something to do with growing.
7: IS AI EVEN DOING ANYTHING AT WAR?! When I am bribing some strong civ or any other to change religion or to declare war, then he shall eventually convert to his old religion. And if I get an ally into a war, then he does absolutely NOTHING. I once sent into a war my buddy Montezuma, who was quite close to our target, Cyrus. And guess what? Montezuma did absolutely NOTHING. He declared peace with Cyrus fast, and I had to pay him "an arm and a leg". (I am playing Noble). Not that he didn't have any forces. He was even beating me in Power. I seen only some junky Jaguars pillaging some cottages around of my foe. I expect better from such a smart AI that can fight extraordinarily with me and sends good units!

 

[Indibil]

I'd reccomend you reading all of Sisiutil's ALC threads.

It's amazing how much you can learn from them.

Do not skip the comments by other people as those are the things which make your game improve (as well as reading his turn reports).

 

[JimT]

Thank you. Although I see that this game is practically lost, I have to tell another questions (unless you will ban me )

1: How to grow a production city? Should I chop down trees or let them grow, only to be used by my citizen?
2: How you are achieving those biiiig numbers? I can't imagine what it takes to have Mass Media in early 1900, or even in 1850! Or 20-sized city in 1700!
3: Is it worth it to first build many farms and after big growing, build cottages? (after I can fully use the tiles, probably in 19-20).
4: When I am playing, usually I get three cities, maybe four, then I can't expand, because other civilizations have actually claimed the terrain. I don't get that overexpansion thing, but still I can't colonize other important terrains.
5: Is it worth it to make cities at good positions or to lock civs at their positions, but very far away from the capital?
6: I don't know how to use Slavery efficiently at start, just to build those Axemen to wipe off leaders who may be a threat in future (Mansa Musa, the tech scum... who always seems to spawn in my games...). I suppose it has something to do with growing.
7: IS AI EVEN DOING ANYTHING AT WAR?! When I am bribing some strong civ or any other to change religion or to declare war, then he shall eventually convert to his old religion. And if I get an ally into a war, then he does absolutely NOTHING. I once sent into a war my buddy Montezuma, who was quite close to our target, Cyrus. And guess what? Montezuma did absolutely NOTHING. He declared peace with Cyrus fast, and I had to pay him "an arm and a leg". (I am playing Noble). Not that he didn't have any forces. He was even beating me in Power. I seen only some junky Jaguars pillaging some cottages around of my foe. I expect better from such a smart AI that can fight extraordinarily with me and sends good units!

Not got access to the game so general advice. Ignore the excessive use of smilies but I was in the mood.

1. Any city needs two food per citizen plus extra for growth. so you will need resources. An early production city needs hills and again resources are useful. Before placing the city check how much food you can get to grow to a decent size and how many you can harvest. You may find windmills are needed to maintain growth (worst case scenario). Grow to a reasonable size and then start working mines, you probably won't whip much as a mine produces similar returns (if not using exploits). Do not run specialists (except to stifle growth) or if it is an engineer (even then whats two hammers in the scheme of things).

2. Size 20 city needs food, health resources and hereditary rule, if your not getting them then you may need to specialise more.

3. Cottages or farms, depends on aims. A commerce city will survive on a couple of food resources, particularily if coastal. A city will need food which means farms and resources. A city will not want cottages

4. War is the key, get three cities up then expansion will be by the sword (unless your the peacenik/builder type). Stealing cities can often be more useful as long as they are in the right place, otherwise raze and rebuild. Pillage improvements you don't want for gold but keep cottages next to commerce cities.

5. Sometimes a distant city can hold the AI by barring a peninsula, on high levels it may be neccessary to box in a space for expansion. At low levels pick the best spots and mark unwanted AI Cities for early destruction or capture.

6. Whipping effectively means for more than one pop. Try putting 4 hammers into a library and then whip for three pop. Axemen are best whipped with between 1-4 hammers invested this uses 2 pop and leaves an overflow of approx 25 It also needs food. In commerce and production cities try only whipping essentials or before your first rush, otherwise just use it to maintain happiness. In a high food city (such as your capital usually is) then whipping can be used every ten turns to keep below the happiness cap and production high.

7. When you bribe for war/religion then your doing just that for ten turns. So they will swap then ten turns later decide they wanted their original religion. If you want them to keep it then get open borders and spread the religion through their cities. After ten turns they may decide to keep yours.
As for war the AI are very good when they feel prepared other wise they spend ten turns getting ready and then declare peace. The best use is to get an AI to declare war on a neighbour and hope this distracts them so you can attack from a different direction three turns later while your enemy is busy assaulting your ally.
Have to say diplomacy is not my forte so listen to someones advice instead, if offered.

Hope this helps

 

[Cam_H]

Thank you. Although I see that this game is practically lost, I have to tell another questions (unless you will ban me ) ...

Winth,

I played your game to 1600AD - I'm not sure if you're still looking for advice, but a mini-spoiler outlining my progress and a saved game is included below.

Spoiler :

I guess some of the things that I felt that you needed were;

• to start working towards meeting new tribes and trading partners (so traded tech's to get Compass and later Optics from Rome, and produced a Caravel that went east),

• better management of Berlin in light of bonus from Bureaucracy (knocked over some riverside Farms and placed down some Cottages),

• an army! (exited The Caste System for Slavery and began whipping. The high XP Axe was upgraded to a Maceman).

What happened in this attempt was that Germany sent a mini-SoD towards the Barbarian city, only to have Caesar snatch it from right under our noses. It was poorly defended, and so while we were really in no position to start a war we went and did so anyway - if nothing else I could take Mauyran with the view to signing a peace deal with Caesar 10 turns. On more difficult levels we would have run into better city defenses, but the Roman cities were fairly lightly garrisoned, and three Catapults and about half a dozen of our Maces (many upgraded from Axes with a period of 10% 90%) were more than enough to also take Neapolis and Pisae.

Rome and Cumae should fall quickly enough if the other cities have been any guide.

Down south Ravenna was defended by Archers and easy enough for promoted Macemen (ex-Axes) to take. This city isn't really much good but does have access to Copper. I autorazed another Roman city in the ice, while there still another one near the Iron.

With a 10XP unit, Munich got The Heroic Epic and was used as a unit pump throughout. It's producing Horse Archers simply for their 2 capability in that they can get to the war front quickly and otherwise relieve City Raider Macemen from having to defend the cities (not that there's been any resistance to date).

Frederick's still at war with Julius Caesar with a view to taking Rome.

The Caravel that was whipped out of Hamburg met an American going in the opposite direction, and with a Map thrown into a technology deal Germany got the circumnavigation bonus. All tribes have since been met, and Germany's back-filled its tech'. Despite it being 1600AD, Liberalism's free technology is still available. Down Divine Right and Guilds. Due to the Roman war, Germany didn't build any Work Boats due to fear of pillaging.

Anyway, hopefully you'll find this game to be a reasonable launching pad if you wanted to play on, or alternately try a similar strategy from your own earlier save. I'm not the world's greatest warmonger, and I'm certainly not presenting this as a flawless attempt; so other CivFanatics posters may do better than 'my good self'. With more ferocious whipping, the army could be larger, earlier.

The save at 1600AD.