[C3C] COTM127 Dalecarlia Sid - Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

Più Freddo · Dec 4, 2016

This is the thread where you tell us how you did - win, lose or retire.

Only read or post in this thread when your game is ended and successfully submitted.

Quintillus · Dec 4, 2016

Most excellent timing on posting the thread, I finished mere minutes after the thread was created.

In the end, I suffered a 2004 Cultural 20K loss to India. However, the game was much closer than I expected, and there was a time during the 20th century when I entertained hopes of staging an upset victory. Compared to the end of the Ancient Age, when was happy simply to be alive, things were much brighter for most of the later parts of the game.

As mentioned, I holed up on the eastern side of the landmass, and let the western side be a graveyard of setters. However, by 1000 AD, it was settled, and India was gaining the upper hand on the Hittites, the other main colonizer. India also was clearly established as the leader in the tech race - the last wonder they did not get was Hoover's, and the last without a non-tech requirement was Copernicus's. I may have been able to intervene and maintain a balance had I realized the direction things were doing, but the Hittites were my enemy since time immemorial since they had challenged me for control of the eastern part of the landmass, and pacifism was the leading tenet of my philosophy, due to fear of the hordes of troops that could be unleashed on Sid.

However, the Middle Ages did progress quickly, as did the Industrial Ages. I caught up to and surpassed in tech first the Japanese, then the Aztecs, then the Egyptians, and finally the Sumerians, with whom I traded extensively, though I also boosted myself by researching a few forgotten techs such as Ironclads and then trading them to everyone. But meanwhile, India was extending their lead in land area, and by 1900 would conquer Sumeria, as well as having established suzerainty on most of the islands where a civ did not start (they would ultimately secure 40% of the land area). The Hittites remained their closest rival until the latter half of the 20th century, when I would become their main rival.

India built the UN in 1645, but as they had many conflicts, never held elections. Meanwhile, both India and the Hittites sought a Space Race victory. The Hittites, however, lacked Uranium; India had a source on the western part of my island, with which they would build 13 nuclear missiles (4 ICBM; 9 tactical). After researching Fission in the early-mid 1900s, I realized that I would need this uranium to complete my spaceship as none was available for trade (on closer inspection, it's the only source on the map). As such, I traded with India for Rubber and Oil (which I also lacked, due to not colonizing the western part of the island), and built up a military with which to fight India. In the 1960s, I declared war on them and brought the whole world in against them as well. With a force of Mech Infantry, Tanks, and Artillery, facing Stealth Bombers, Mech Infantry, and Modern Armor, I would successfully take the city west of the mountain chokepoint (and keep it the rest of the game, with its Uranium), as well as the city west of that, containing Oil, which would flip back after I made peace. However, this crucially prevented India from achieving a Space Race victory, buying me time (though ultimately, not enough due to 20K).

In the late 1980s, India, having peaced out the world, would declare war on me, seeking to retake their Uranium, and posting nuclear submarines off my coast, though uncharacteristically for Gandhi, not firing the tactical nukes at me (I would sink one of their tactical nukes during the war). The culture flip had taken away roughly half my Mech Inf, Artillery, and Tanks, and I had not had the resources to replace them, so my military was dangerously compromised, but by concentrating most of my forces near the Uranium city, I was able to repel India's Modern Army with few losses, and despite withering attacks from Stealth Bombers (some of which my Mobile SAMs and Jet Fighters shot down, but they're a tough target). Eventually India would land 24 troops on my eastern shore, precipitating an emegency defence of two cities, where even my ceremonial Spearmen, Pikeman, and Musketman were called in to aid in the defence, and the Uranium city lost three-quarters of its defence to redeployment. However, the Metropolis and Hills defence would prove worth its weight in gold, as India's attack was repelled with very few losses (and the generation of my first great leader), and the next turn they were willing to talk peace. I sent my Tanks to destroy their oil city, and ended the war, technically winning as they paid tribute.

Alas, only a few turns later, India would win due to 20K. And even if they hadn't, I was likely headed for a Histographic Loss, as I was slightly off pace for completing all the Space Race techs. At the current rate, I would've hit all but Robotics in 2043; my economy was likely to grow somewhat, but probably not enough to net Robotics by 2050, even considering a Palace prebuild being used to snag the Stasis Chamber almost immediately. An optimistic rate (after disbanding all military above the support limit, a very risky move given India's hostility) would've put me at 2037-2038 for all but Robotics, still coming in extremely close. Disbanding excess military after the first war with India would've been curtains very quickly after they declared the second one.

All in all, a very fun game, and one I'm glad I tried as I did far better than I expected. True, the bonus trait helps, but I didn't wind up using a Berserk at all (I finally built one in the late '90s in case I might use it to get a Golden Age), and came far closer to winning than I expected, never having won above Emperor in an epic game (I did beat the WWII conquest on Sid once, as Japan, but attributed that primarily to a successful blitzkrieg before the production bonus could counteract Japan's initially stronger position). Perhaps it shouldn't have been quite so much of a surprise, having won at least one war on Deity in the past, but I really didn't expect to be able to not only come close to a peaceful victory condition, but also to be able to win late wars against an opponent who would be formidable given the land area difference (40% vs 12%) even on Regent.

If I were to play again, which I might to see how I do, I'd do a few things differently:

- Take a less defeatist approach with the knowledge of how close I wound up coming even when I was sure of defeat for the first five millenia.
- Seriously consider going for the Great Lighthouse, as that would buy invaluable time for colonizing the western part of the landmass.
- Be more aggressive in attempting to colonize as much of the western landmass as possible. Although I didn't know it at the time, it contained the critical resources of oil, rubber, and uranium, which would've been a huge boon to have in the late game (as well as aluminum, which I did have due to fortunate city placement/border expansion).
- Target Bronze Working and Iron Working earlier, to help with the barbarian problem. Also probably Horseback Riding, but especially early on a few Spearmen would've been exceedingly helpful.
- Not set out on a 50-turn Writing as my first tech (likely doing Bronze Working instead). I seriously underestimated how quickly my commerce would pick up given the nice starting location (probably due to still being a bit rusty), and thought I could save money for later. It would've been more useful had it been spent on tech, especially since I wound up losing 200 gold out of what I saved to the Hittites to make peace, and another 70-80 to barbarians who ransacked one of my towns.
- Consider invading the least advanced nation once I surpassed them sufficiently. I probably could've invaded Japan with Infantry + Cavalry + Artillery versus Musketmen + Samurai. I didn't in part because I was very tech focused at the time, which was sensible enough, but if I'd had the western landmass my tech rate would've been better, and I may well have been able to pursue both options at the same time. But having Japan's island as well would've been useful both for the additional unit support, as well as for some specialist cities to help with taxes or science (and UN vote qualification, if there had been votes).

Final army was mostly Mech Inf, Artillery, and TOWs (which I build during the second war with India when I had few resources), with a few Modern Armor, and three Tactical Nukes. Also had over 20 workers playing whack-a-mole with pollution; I built a few Mass Transits near the end, but was far from as environmentally friendly as I could've been.

Good game, looking forward to the next one!

Più Freddo · Dec 5, 2016

Quintillus said:
the western landmass [...] contained the critical resources of oil, rubber, and uranium

I put them there. And that was the only source of Uranium on the whole map. I thought it would help you, not make things more difficult...

Did you ever consider placing Workers, Warriors, Spearmen etc. along the coast in order to prevent the enemy from landing?

Quintillus · Dec 5, 2016

No, because of the casualties sustained against the barbarians on the eastern landmass, and their great numbers on the western half. At the time of finishing colonizing the eastern landmass (not long before the end of the Ancient Age in 680 AD), it seemed more prudent to batten down the hatches at the mountain and catch up some in development. I'd also already witnessed multiple Hittite landing parties be vanquished by barbarians. Of course, knowledge that none of the last 4 resources were in the eastern half would've changed the equations.

lifetap · Dec 14, 2016

Done! Well it is relatively easy compared to all other COTM sids game, this feels like Emperor level only mainly because its an archipelago and we have the alpha island.

Here is how I did it from 4k bc
get GLib (yeah I did not get GLit, should have)
get 100% of my island (destroying 2 hittites cities)
get all contacts
0% tech first then 100% tech when education is almost learned (prepare libraries/universities)
farm armies from japan inside the Gally using Berserks (easiest opponent)
trigger GA to get tech -> to get copernicus and newtons (to be ahead of hittites tech lead)
use Berserks to get smaller islands from hittites, i also used Army->musketman (to balance hittites-egypt-india)
ICS (for unit support and ARMY support)
Spy before declaring war
conquer Japan using Cannons, Cavalries, Armies (Max # of army already)
get rails, get ToE, get Hoover Dam (I'm way ahead the tech lead at this time)
get nearest AIs, first Egypt, then hittite using Army of Tanks, then japan, then aztecs, then india
I also got UN for back up, got almost all available Wonder in Industrial onwards except SETI program (india got computers first)

by end of game I think i have around 550-600 unit support that really affects my GPT.
Game date:1766 AD
Firaxis score:9116
Jason score:6520
Time played:38:26:01

1781 gold
40% tech
10% happines
200 gpt
184 town/city/metro
19 settler, 40 worker, 1 archer, 1 swords, 4 pike, 7 rifle, 39 cav, 21 infa, 140 tank, 14 cann, 182 artil, 2 tact, 1 dest, 6 battl, 11 nuke sub, 37 armies, 12 bers, 4 mediev, 8 guerr, 6 mob sam
Modern Ages tech are: rocketry, spaceflight, fission, computers

I havent even used radar towers, no Modern Armor, no mech infantry yet. I have around 5-7 nukes which I used 1-2 turns before I win 66% domination victory just for the sake of using it.

Regrets
Saving Armies and not putting units in it.
Attacking much later because I'm worried about their Stack of dooms.

I think I'll see pro players finish this game using berserks/cavalries only, pro players such us kuningas, templar_x, etc.

greatbeyond · Jan 3, 2017

A long drawn out game ending in a time victory.

It always amazes me in the different types of games participants experience. In mine it was the Hittites who were the dominant force from very early with the Indians a close second. Mursilis made contact with all the other AIs by the time I met him and used that advantage to zip way ahead in techs. I went for the Republic sling hoping to get lucky but wasn't successful and was beaten to the Great Library by the Aztecs, though it didn't seem to work out very well as they were next to last in the tech race at the end of the medieval age, just ahead of the Japanese who would be in last place until the end.

I hurried to get Berserkers and built up an army of about 40 and declared on the Japanese. The closest coastal city was the target and the Berserkers went crazy only to lose about 15 berserkers with the most of the rest injured. Success! Um, one problem ..., into the borders of the recently captured city step not 1, nor, 2, but 3 stacks of about 20 each, assorted longbows, Samurais, and lesser units. Hmm, there is no way, even with the 20 or so reinforcements that are on their way, that I will be able to hold the city. Berserkers are great on attack but not so good at defending, and having concentrated on building Berserkers, I don't have enough Pikes to present any kind of defense.My fleet retreats and the city is retaken. A few turns later after the stacks have turned back and my units heal, I retake it with the same massed units appearing on the borders. A galley probing further along the coast reveals more Japanese reinforcements on the way. OK, I know from experience that at the deity and up levels the AI is bound to have more units, but I don't expect it until a little later in the game and not this many. Discretion being the better part of valor, I evacuate my troops and raze the city and settle for peace a few turns later, though the Japanese say I should just be glad they'll give peace and not make me pay for it.

More turns are spent training more Berserkers and I am just about to building cavalry when I decide to try the Egyptians who are at war with the Aztecs. I give them 10 turns or so to move their forces toward the East and the Aztec threat and then I STRIKE! 60 Berserkers slash and fight their way ashore aiming to take a couple of cities before the Egytptians can recover, Ha, HA!! Umm, one problem, someone seems to have forgotten to tell the Egyptians to roll over and play dead. Again I lose a significant number of berserkers with the rest injured and, just like before, large stacks of enemy units appear like magic. Deciding to adopt hit and run tactics, I abandon the city. My units heal and are reinforced and I attempt to do the same to the next city. Only this time the city still stands with my units all suffering injuries and no hope in sight. The Egyptians are also uncaring about paying for peace so I deem it best to go and rebuild yet again.

Time to try the Egyptians again, this time with many more units including cavalry which allows me to whittle away at their stacks before they can get too close. Eventually they are defeated and victory is mine. I am now behind in tech and in danger of inviting the stronger AIs to attack. So I convert most production to wealth in my big cities and crank up the tech slider, eventually getting to a point where I am just behind the Indians and Hittites at the end of the Medieval age.
The Egyptian war took from 1500AD to 1900AD and I am thinking space or diplo may be the only chance at victory.

greatbeyond · Jan 3, 2017

The end of the Medieval Age came around 1300AD and at 1900 AD I am finishing up the Industrial age. The Hittites easily completed the ToE while I was still researching Electricity so my palace pre-build was in danger of wasting a lot of shields. I slowed production as much as I could and hoped to get Electronics and complete the Hoover Dam. I was just able to do so and used Electronics in trade to fill in the upper side of the tech bracket. I am now just ahead of the Indians and Hittites. A check of the victory screen though shows India over 100k and the graph indicates the Hittites are close enough that they won't get victory that way just yet. I have to attack India and cut them down to size and then the Hittites. Perhaps then I will still have a chance at a diplo or space win.

War preparations are completed with a force of about 60 artillery, 20 tanks, some infantry and 6 armies, with more being built. In the meantime, the Indians and Hittites both jump ahead and have completed Fission and Computers, and I have to switch my pre-build for the UN to something else when the Indians complete it. I hold my breath and wait but, no vote, ever. It seems they are afraid to put their popularity to a test against me. I land my force on a mountain next to their westernmost city closest to me on their main landmass. This helps in defending against the stream of units that come to try and push me into the sea. Bombardment after bombardment with my artillery leads me to believe that there are a minimum of 30 mech infantry defending the city and taking it is going to be impossible. I am still shipping more artillery and tanks to add to my stack but it is just not going to happen. I have been able to pick off some enemy units transiting between cities and hope that by moving my stack inland I will force the AI to move more and thus weaken their defense. I assume that my stack of 100+ units will be strong enough to withstand any attacks so a scorched earth campaign it is. As I move inland, the Hittites appear and land some units declaring war against India. I am finally able to buy alliances with all the other AIs, though the only troops I ever see are Hittite and even then less than 20 of them. I see that apparently the Indians used tac nukes on the Aztecs devastating their lands. I try to keep my units near Indian cities to deter then from nuking my invasion force and keep my other units dispersed. It is just enough to prod the Indians to making some moves and I take the Indian city that is in the center of the curved western coastline. I assume now that I have cracked open their shell and victory is near. Umm, someone has forgotten to tell the Indians to give up. As my units are healing a stack of 140 mech and tow infantry comes into sight. I use my artillery to soften them up and rush a few drafted mech infantry into place. Being able to barrage 2 squares away gives me enough time to weaken the stack enough to survive. Now that the danger is surely over, my units heal and are off to the Delhi Spa and Resort, woohoo! We climb aboard the tour bus and we are off. As we start up the first hill on the highway to Delhi, a stack of 160 mech and TOW infantry appears in the distance headed toward us. We retreat and bring out the toy we just invented for highway bandits. Two tac nukes later the danger is passed and Delhi is finally ours, though all the AIs except Mursilis declare war on us. The Indians make a few more attempts with just a few units. I am now satisfied that their spaceship is destroyed and they won't be growing any more culture.

The Hittites are now in the lead with about 170k culture and have 6 spaceship parts. I get peace from, all the AIs. My invasion force is now loaded back onto their transports and heads for Hittite lands. I have built about 8 more tac nukes and positioned them near the Hittite homelands. I hope to avoid having all the AIs declare war on me again so I sign MPPs and then demand Hittite troops leave my lands. It is now about 15 turns from the end and Mursillis who now has 8 space ship parts predictably declares war. It takes about 12 turns for the Hittites to lose most of their homeland and ask for peace. A few turns later victory is mine.

templar_x · Jan 11, 2017

925 IBT Egypt gets Con 1-2 turns before me. Enter the MA the next turn.

Decide for max on Eng… and that FINALLY the AS will research something for me. That is, a government tech.

875 IBT now that was unwanted: Egypt also builds TGW… ;(

For the first time i remember my SHIPS get expelled with the LoD-order.

800 finally! Con+Curr to Sumeria for Mona. They draw Eng…

Revolt for 8 turns LLL

775 IBT f**** barbs kill practically my entire army and plunder hundreds of gold. And there are many more.

My private civ laptop has some issues and i suffer some crashes… may need a few one soon. Haven´t seen a true bluescreen in a while…

570 make peace with Egypt after a short not so wise war. No gains, except a few elite victories that gained nothing. Now they also have a Feud monopoly, great. I will have that tech soon, but maybe my trade options will be gone by then. This game works against me many ways, it seems.

490 Feud in but no trade options… Egypt researched Rep, Sumer has got both MA techs… grrr

410 let´s try again. Now set up killing fields, prepare elites, LoD Egypt for some more war….

310 Eng in, Sumer has got Inv, no one else anything

270 don´t panic, Egypt unloads 4 units in one turn…

Arghhhhl. 3 elites die, in a row. This is not the leader farming i imagined…

170 Inv in, finally. FP built, eventually.

150 ignite GA on a few more landed Egyptian units. Two elite victories this time still give no MGL.

30 GP in, self-researched again. Still has some trade value, if not much. Nobody has anything meaningful beyond GP and Theo though, which is good.

1 source of salt connected. Egypt has none (connected)! And seemingly (currently) no iron either. Most probably they imported it from the Hethites, who i brought up against them…

And i was wrong… they have Edu!

10ad take an Egyptian town on their continent for the 2nd time, now try to hold it.

30 Hittites have CHEM… maybe i should have switched off research.

Holding the town.

IBT no clue why, but now Egypt RETREATS their troops from my foothold.

50 take their 2nd large town, with TGW, even keeping it for the moment.

70 have to give the city up, too many units… or no, even better, i gift it to the Hittites!

IBT stupid me! I overlooked that they were at war with each other!?!??! I could have bet they were NOT.

90 i check and yes :sigh: they are… :hammer:

But finally, with my 18th e victory, i spawn my first MGL!

110 CHEM in. Minor trades only, everyone and his brother is bankrupt

. I avoid Edu and Chiv in my trades.

130 take the GW town AGAIN. Gift the town to the Indians this time, after checking that they are REALLY not at war with Egypt.

An Egyptian KNIGHT-settler-pair has landed on the Western part of my continent… don´t think i have ever seen that before.

Am STRONG compared to Egypt for the first time. I must have really hit them hard.

IBT: Astro around

150 IBT Indians declare, for no reason, but not threat also

so i get WH from them

170 capture the town with TGLight

250 end of GA…

I can keep the capitol on 2-turn-berserks, nice

After the usual reshuffling after GA i end up 1st in production and 2nd in gnp, also 1st in land and pop already.

IBT Egypt completes Cope´s --- not that would help me in their cap position.

270 IBT MET in, MT next (after some consideration I decide to self-research it, because except Sumeria no other AS seems to be researching anything anymore, and i might want to actively go beyond what the GLib soon will give me, so to connect the continents via sea trade. Not sure Sumeria will provide all that on time plus at affordable cost…)

Grr Sumeria has MET one turn before me L

Actually Sumeria currently is the only foe I´d try to avoid, they do have salt. Most others lack either salt, or even salt+iron!

320 Sumer has MT. And obviously also NAV.

330 take Egyptian cap, their 2nd last major town, flips are always soon retaken. Must have lost one army due to a stupid mistake… with animation off i did not even see it.

Now own THG, Cope´s, MoM and KT. TGLib, I only now realize, is somewhere completely else… good to finally find out.

I decide to forget about a GLib elevator and trade around, so i get Astro. Banking, MT and Nav is also around, but only Banking in general. However, Astro is fine.

360 bust my rep and buy Banking and Nav from Egypt before I redeclare after a flip. Take their last towns, but they still have SoBs

IBT MT in

370 Egypt plants a new capitol and gets loads of free units

3t-Cavs from now on in the cap.

Even though only 3 techs are missing till the IA, i decide to switch for money and sell all libs and change all scientists but a single one to taxmen. Physics next.+458 gpt now.

380 a stupid mistake costs me the WH from Japan

390 once again take last Egyptian town, they are still around with another SoB

410 dammit, now i accidentally loaded a 3rd unit into an army ;(

420 eliminate the Egyptians

450 exceed 500gpt

470 Japan destroyed, and loads of their units wandering around… vanish

490 Sumer has Physics

500 take Hittite capitol, finally also take #1 in GNP

510 Hittite main island under control, get techs including Physics in fake PD.

520 >600gpt

540 Hittites destroyed. Right away, war against Aztecs starts.

Lose my first berserk army in an amphi attack L however, was quite lucky until now.

560 i decide to resign… it´s midnight before deadline and i cannot play all night due to appointments tomorrow… what a pity. It was a nice game though, only would have to finish to crush the Aztecs and then probably some part of India… my game practically is won, i guess i could finish in another 10-20 turns from here.

T_x

E vics:

IIIII IIIII IIIII III 90ad

IIIII IIIII 230ad

IIIII IIIII III 340ad

III 370ad

IIIII II 390ad

I IBT on defense, immediately killed

IIIII II 460ad

IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII 560ad

I

templar_x · Jan 11, 2017

I think I'll see pro players finish this game using berserks/cavalries only, pro players such us kuningas, templar_x, etc.

i was Close to it, really Close, only time saved the AS... Domination was due way before 1000ad, that´s for sure.

t_x

supersova_SU · Jan 12, 2017

Domination 1700 AD
Firaxis score: 8093
Jason score: 6390
Time played: 55:23:04

Scratcher · Jan 12, 2017

I submitted an incomplete game. Even with the additional week, I was unable to get close to finishing this game. But I will play on later when I get some free time.

I stopped at 580ad, I was in the lead with score of 2815, with India second at 2642. I still hadn't decided on a victory condition but Conquest, Domination, Diplo and Space are all still possible.

I have a couple of questions regarding getting MGL from elite victories.
1) Can you get a MGL from an defensive elite victory? (i.e. an elite musket sucessfully defending an attack)
2) Can you get a MGL from an elite berserk victory attacking units from a boat?

730bc After researching currency I entered the MA. My research was to go towards Invention and beyond for Berserks, with the other techs from the Great Library when complete.
690bc I complete my Forbidden Palace.
610bc Reports of a massive barb uprising on the western area. The Hittites have entered the MA.
550bc I complete the Great Library. I get hammered by barbs horse losing hundreds of gold, but slowly get the better of them and fuill up the western area. The Hittites get some towns on the island. I will take these later with Berserks to trigger my GA.
170bc Sumerians demand literature, i refuse and they declare war. I agree MA with India and Aztecs.
10bc Invention completed, research on Gunpowder dropped to minimum to pay for archer upgrades.
30ad Hittites are goaded into declaring war. And I quickly take their towns.
110ad A berserk victory triggers my GA.
330ad The Great Library gets Education, and becomes obsolete. I gained 7 techs from the Great Library.
420ad I declare war on Japan and take their southern town of Nara.
My invasion force was Musket (6) Trebs (6) and Berserks (12), but the volume of Japanese units sent was unbelievable (for an Emporer player). but over the following turns I am able to slowly reinforce and take out units every turn (both offensively and defensively). But by 490ad the Japanese force is spent and my Military Advisor tells me I am now strong compared to Japan. I get 2 MGL both turned into Berserk Armies. Kagoshima and Tokyo both captured from Berseks on Carvels and then abandonned and resettled. Japan is basically toast now. But I dont have time ti play on.
580ad Incomplete game submitted.

This was a really good game. And I will play on at a later date to finish. But i need to start the Russian game if I am going to have any chance to complete a game.

Logs

MA techs

Spoiler :

Full log

Spoiler :

Elite Victories

Spoiler :

Scratcher

Più Freddo · Jan 12, 2017

Scratcher said:
1) Can you get a MGL from an defensive elite victory? (i.e. an elite musket sucessfully defending an attack)

Yes. The propability is half of that of an offensive victory, i.e. 1/32 instead of 1/16 (for militaristic tribes 1/24 and 1/12).

2) Can you get a MGL from an elite berserk victory attacking units from a boat?

Sure. If the boat is full, the leader hovers in mid-air. You must unload something else to make place. Have another vessel ready.

Scratcher · Jan 12, 2017

Thanks, I pretty sure 1 was possible, but I haven't played with the berserks very often and wasn't sure about 2.

Scratcher

I. Larkin · Jan 15, 2017

Wonders:

Turn 75 : 1150BC

Egypt created The Temple of Artemis in Memphis

Turn 78 : 1075BC

Egypt created The Hanging Gardens in Thebes

Turn 91 : 750BC

Egypt created The Great Library in Thebes

Turn 112 : 330BC

Egypt created Sun Tzu's Art of War in Thebes

Turn 131 : 50AD

Egypt created Knights Templar in Thebes

Turn 145 : 290AD

Egypt created Sistine Chapel in Thebes

Turn 159 : 430AD

Egypt created Copernicus' Observatory in Thebes

Turn 77 : 1100BC

India created The Statue of Zeus in Calcutta

Turn 91 : 750BC

Aztecs created The Great Wall in Tenochtitlan

Turn 124 : 90BC

Dalecarlia created Leonardo's Workshop in Mora

I. Larkin · Jan 15, 2017

Wars:
Turn 76 : 1150 BC
Hitties demand Republic and declare

Spoiler War line :

Retired at 500 AD

Lanzelot · Jan 17, 2017

I used the strategy based upon the Berserk, like we did in the Deity OCC Conquest game: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/occc1-one-city-conquest.491935/. But before I'll explain it, a few basic events up to that point:

Research: I went Writing -> Philosophy -> pick Code of Laws for free -> lone scientist run on Republic
I simply didn't have the guts for trying the full slingshot on Sid... But in retrospect it may have been possible, as shown by I.Larkin's game. We had a great commerce-rich start land, and the AI was surprisingly backward for a Sid game, as was already noted by TheHaze and templar_x.
Most of the remaining AA techs I got by trading.

When my initial Curraghs circum-navigated our island, I knew that the Lighthouse would be required, so I started a pre-build for it. Unfortunately the Hittites beat me to it by a handful of turns. :wallbash:

So that meant that they would be my first target... :devil:

I kept the pre-build alive and eventually converted it to Leonardo's Workshop. Together with the ton of cash I had saved up during the lone scientist run on Republic, I used that for a mass-upgrade Archer -> Berserk...

The distance between our island and the Hittites was not safe without the Lighthouse, but I was able to ship over a significant number of Berserks using the "two-leg ship-bridge": send a few (empty) suicide galleys over to the other side, then send galleys from both sides to meet in the middle: loaded ones from "our" side and empty ones from the other side (in such a way that the ones from the other side can get back into safe waters in the same turn). In the middle, load the Berserks from the loaded into the empty ships and sail them back to safety. That way I lost a couple of empty ships, but no Berserks. When I had 8 Berserks on the other side, I attacked the Hittites and eliminated them in around 15 turns. This war (my first one) started in 210 AD.

How is it possible to defeat a powerful Sid AI with only 8 Berserks (plus a few more that got shipped over while the campaign was in progress - as reinforcements and replacements for losses), you may ask? Ok, here is now how the "Berserk hit and run tactic" works:

An AI city is usually protected by around 5 units, so 8-10 Berserks is usually sufficient to capture it. Step one is to bring your fleet into position and capture the first city.
If the victim has no horses (or if the captured city is shielded by forests/hills/mountains so that no horse-based unit can attack it in the interturn), you may keep it for one turn. Otherwise gift it immediately to a "third party", which is at peace with your victim but optimally does not have a RoP with your victim.
In the interturn, the victim will move a huge stack of slow units (spearmen, pikemen, swordsmen, MI, Longbows etc.) next to the captured city.
If you haven't done so yet on the previous turn, now is the time to gift the city to that "friendly" neighbor. Don't try to defend it, it will only be painful... Berserks are bad defenders, and if you waste precious ship capacity by bringing defenders (pikes, muskets) along, you will only slow down yourself and will not be able to hold the captured cities for more than 2-3 turns anyway. (And you run a big risk of losing your units in a flip...)
So by gifting that city away, we have achieved two important tasks: we don't lose any units, because they are safe on their ships, and a huge number of enemy units is suddenly "stuck" on foreign territory, and without a RoP, they need at least 2 turns to get back into action. Our ships, however, are much faster and sail on to the next city, which is now drained of its defenders...
You capture that city as well and rinse & repeat...
Within a dozen turns or so, you have sailed around their island and have taken all their coastal cities and gifted them to a neighbor. If the victim has settled small islands somewhere, plan ahead to take them as well. Usually you can just keep those, as they don't have many units on remote islands. (Sometimes I was also able to get the last remaining island towns in the peace treaty.) So when they are down to just their capital, you make peace. This is now the time where you finally go ashore. (The cities now belonging to a neighbor should not have had their first culture expansion, so there should be neutral territory where you can do this without getting kicked out. Or even better, you have a RoP with that neighbor.)
Prepare a sneak attack and then capture their capital. (Later on I used a Musketmen-Army to cover my Berserks during the final attack on the capital.) The civ is now eliminated and their huge stacks of units still running around the island just disappear into thin air...
Now you declare war on that friendly neighbor and capture all the gifted cities back in one turn. Usually they are still empty, so you can just walk in. In the worst case, they have built 1-2 spearmen in the meantime. (You made sure to sell the harbor, before gifting them away, didn't you? So that they can't build pikes or even muskets there!)
Within one turn, the new victim loses so many cities, that their war weariness goes through the roof and completely paralyses them... You now load everything on board again, and attack the new victim's mainland in the same manner. Thanks to the Golden Age, I had produced many more galleys and Berserks, so as to have two (or more) fleets, one going around the victim's island clock-wise and the other one counter-clock-wise.

After I had secured the Hittites' mainland including the Great Lighthouse in that manner, reaching the other islands safely was no longer a problem. Also thanks to the GA I had bigger fleets and ship-chains and was able to replace losses quickly. And the losses weren't that high in the first place: Only very few AIs managed to get Gunpowder before the end of the game, and those that did, didn't have saltpeter. So I met mostly pikes, while some didn't even have iron, so I was up against spearmen, which were absolutely no match for a Berserk, not even in a hill city.

This strategy proved especially successful on this map because

All AI cities, except for the capitals, were coastal cities. So it was possible to capture almost an entire empire without going ashore (and consequently without suffering any losses against their monster-stacks).
Most AIs didn't have horses. So it was possible to keep captured cities for one turn and that way draw out huge stacks of defenders from the next target cities...

Using that strategy, some AIs were eliminated so quickly, they never knew what hit them... I just went from one island to the next, first attacking the Hittites, gifting their cities to Japan, then attacking Japan, gifting their cities to Egypt, then attacking Egypt, gifting their cities to the Aztecs, then attacking the Aztecs, gifting their cities to India. While attacking India, I hit the domination limit in 650 AD.

During GA I had more cash than I could spend, so I continued research up to Astronomy. (And was able to trade for Gunpowder.) This was useful for faster ship transport, and also I could now use size-2 Armies filled with Musketmen (for when I could not set up a sneak attack on the last land-locked city and needed cover for the vulnerable Berserks) or filled with Berserks (to crack the occasional musket-protected city I did encounter). I got around 8 MGLs during the game, all from amphibious attacks. Some Armies I filled with 3 units to speed up the campaign, and then simply left them behind when moving to the next island.

Più Freddo · Jan 17, 2017

Lanzelot: Great game! I have two questions:

1. Can you confirm that you need a boat with empy space in it to collect MGLs from amphibious attacks?
2. It is at all possible to win a Sid-level game on Continents or even Pangaea?

templar_x · Jan 18, 2017

I can step in for the answers to this questions

1. that´s right, the MGL is just another unit, so while it can spawn without empty ship space available, you can only transport him with a boat with some empty space.
2. of course it is, and there are many examples of such games around. in stories and in the HoF. the fastest military wins happen on pangaea, just in any other game, the very earlies dates starting from the bc times...

t_x

Più Freddo · Jan 18, 2017

templar_x said:
2. of course it is, and there are many examples of such games around. in stories and in the HoF. the fastest military wins happen on pangaea, just in any other game, the very earlies dates starting from the bc times...

I'm aware of that. But what would it take to survive the early game at all? I was afraid I had made this game too easy, but even these props wouldn't have sufficed on pangaea? A full Pikeman Army?

Lanzelot · Jan 18, 2017

templar_x said:
1. that´s right, the MGL is just another unit, so while it can spawn without empty ship space available, you can only transport him with a boat with some empty space.

I can add to that: if there isn't a free place in one of the boats on that tile, you can leave the leader behind and come back later to pick it up. During that time it will remain immobile "floating on the water like Jesus", until another ship comes along which picks him up. However, I did not test what would happen if in the meantime an enemy ship enters the tile where the leader is floating... I can imagine three scenarios:

The leader gets destroyed.
The leader, being a land unit, cannot be attacked by a ship, and therefore the enemy ship cannot enter that tile (like it cannot enter land tiles).
The game crashes...

Più Freddo said:
I'm aware of that. But what would it take to survive the early game at all? I was afraid I had made this game too easy, but even these props wouldn't have sufficed on pangaea? A full Pikeman Army?

In my experience, on Pangea it is completely "luck" that decides whether you survive the early game or not. There is nothing the player can do about it... A Sid AI starts with 18 additional starting units (and full knowledge of the map), so if the nextdoor neighbor decides to get rid of you early on, there is nothing you can do about it. After 10-15 turns (depending on how far away his start location is) a stack of 14 units will knock at your door, and the 2-3 warriors you have built by then, won't even stand the chance of a snowball in hell... Also by that time you won't yet have discovered Writing, so you can't establish an embassy to make them more polite. Gifting gold and techs cannot change their mind either, I have already tested that a while ago: if an AI has made the resolution to sneak-attack you, there is nothing that can revert that decision. Making gifts (gold, map, techs), signing a RoP, an MA, a trade embargo or a mutual protection pact, gifting or trading gpt/luxuries/resources: all is invane. The programmers simply didn't implement any algorithm that reverts a "sneak-attack-decision" once made. (This goes for all difficulty levels.)

I experienced this even in a Deity COTM a while back: COTM105 Rome: Final Spoiler: Game Submitted or Abandoned

PS: but yes, I Pikeman-Army would help a little... But it could also be used on the offensive to pillage them back to stone-age, so I'm not sure wether it would be such a good idea?! Perhaps a mountain choke-point with a fortress and a single pike in it? That would buy the human player time until Map Making. Or an immobile "city defender" unit like in the "Pirates" scenario? (An immobile unit with defence-value 1000, protecting the capital.) However, that would eliminate the choice of whether or not to walk your initial settler to a "better" location...

[C3C] COTM127 Dalecarlia Sid - Final Spoiler - Game Submitted

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