COTM55 - First Spoiler

[civ_steve]

COTM 55 First Spoiler - the Ancient Age!

Reading Requirements

1. You must have contact with all remaining civs on your continent.
2. You must be able to research a Middle Age technology.

Posting Restrictions

• Please be discreet about off-continent AI locations; however, feel free to discuss contacts and trades.
• No discussions of the middle ages (or later)
• No screenshots of any middle-age (or later) resources.
• Absolutely NO discussion of any other currently active 'X'OTM!

First things first - where did you settle your Capital and 2nd city and why? Next, how did early growth go? You have a LOT of space, and with the chokepoint blocked off already, some breathing space before the AI shows up via Galleys; how did that go? Any problems with any AI's on your continent? How is the permanent War settings affecting the game? Did it slow research down, or did it result in a mega-AI civ? This game is fairly experimental, so any comments about how this setting helps or hurts play at SID level is very appreciated!

 

[civ_steve]

Moved from Pre-Game discussion thread:

I usually play the game with no Barbarians and no cultural conversions. This is my first time playing a GOTM..I have defeated DEITY but not SID. I tried the game and I got destroyed by barbarians...they had like 50 horseman !!!!! Any tips how to control them ?

Make friends with them; put down a fresh town in the path of a barb superstack, have the town do nothing but wealth & a scientist, and spend all your cash on techs or embassies or whatever. The barbs all pile into the town and have a party; each pillages it for 0 shields, and then they are all gone.

Spend cash on Techs in SId hmm..(I have not played continents much will we be able to meet other civs before navigation? If no then we can spend on tech). Also they are not coming from just one side..

 

[templar_x]

i´m not sure i´ll have enough time to play this out. i did play it into the MA, though, mostly to see if i could survive until then.

i managed one monopoly tech and lost two others by just one turn (and sure yes, i looked on ibt...) ARGH! by now i am a whole era behind.
my idea was a fast REX to settle my part of the continent behind the choke asap. but once i blinked i missed the AIs got MM. then they came with their settlers. two SID! wars each improved my position a bit, but i am still not there where i can stay away from that Sid AI culture.

VC?
i would take any but don´t see which one could work out. the great library was built in a capital on the other end of the world, so no way i could catch it with my nonexistent navy and ancient troops army. space doesn´t look like an option atm plus i won´t have enough playing time for that vc. diplo would be the logical choice, but i am so far behind in tech that they really would have to build it for me directly adjacent to the tip of my nose...

 

[Spoonwood]

I settled in the north near most of the floodplains for my capital. I should have put it on the coast, because the production up north came out too low. I wish I had known about the game (i.e. moved workers) before I settled my cities. I thought the possiblity of more food better for my capital, but I regretted my decision later. My early growth went slowly since I had so little production and didn't maximize it by founding my cities in the right order.

I trained hoplites believing they would defend more efficiently against the barbies than they did. Looking back, I believe training more warriors might have worked better. The AIs had started settling on my continent by the end of the ancient age. The starting locations seem O.K. food-wise, but overall I considered this a rather difficult start. In my opinion, there didn't lay any decent despotic production location in the first ring around each capital, so that makes the Great Library almost impossible to build. I had a build going north of my capital which got sacked by barbies early on, and then when I established an embassy with someone I saw they had like 4 turns left on it. I quit at that point, but I might come back and play this as a sort of challenge.

I don't think the permanent war settings slowed things down... overall things seemed to book along fairly quickly tech-wise. I do know that one tribe (I believe The Persians) got exterminated by the middle to end of the ancient ages.

 

[goyal]

I played the game couple of times and I must say it is very very tough. Steve as you said the game is experimental I wanted to write my whole experience of the game which I played twice.. Just to let you know I can easily defeat emperor level (in PTW)..

Attempts:

1) Settling at the given settlers: If u settle where the settlers are given you won't have any luxuries --> no gold --> won't be able catch up with AI's in Tech race..and soon will be one whole age behind them..
Moreover the barbs will come from two many places to defend. Also the production in cities is also not that great with the top city with not much shields/food...Also won't be able to communicate with any civ other than egypt for a long time as the barbs will kill your curragh too..
Ohhh and that Choke point you won't be able to hold it as Egypt will make a city there and ask you to move them away.

Ok nevertheless I continue in a hope something good might come up later on after I have Republic and cash flowing in and get the two luxuries south of the map..But because of the distribution of AI's on Continents is such that 4-3-1..the 2 Ai's at war will be crushed by the 3rd one on their Island..Egypt and India....So actually the war is not an added benefit. Moreover as it is continents even if we create a war b/w India and Egypt it won't do any good..

End Result : One age behind and India win Space race..I was surprised y Egypt didn't win Cultural Victory though they had 100k pts. I asked the question here and someone told that it needs to be DBL of the one second in cultural race..is it right ??

2) Change the starting location: As I had previous game knowledge I settled near the Luxuries. This time luckily the war b/w the AI helps and Celts clears rome and was comparable to Egypt on my island..On the other Island Babylonians destroyed the pers but was miniature compared to India..
Game was going good and not much problem of barbs too as they had only one direction to come from..the gold was also flowing in..

I also got ahead in technology till the INdustrial age and was now aiming for space race victory but India wins Cultural Victory (..
Egypt was way larger than India as they destroyed celts so I expected them to have atleast half the culture of India !! Is this half culture rule correct ?

I am sorry that I have written ahead of Ancient ages but the game seems to be really hard to win as there is nothing you can do about India who is on a different island and will either get a cultural victory / space race unless either babylonians/pers become the same size as India....
Can you change some thing in the game so that we have some chance...

The war helps in the way that with the losing civ you can exchange tech in the Middle ages..but it makes one civ (the one which is not fighting any war) very very large..
If this was Pangaea instead then I think it would have been easier..or let us try with no fix wars also..the choke point not of much use unless you waste a settler there..

I will try a third time with a different strategy let's see how it goes..If someone can clear the cultural victory(that the winning AI need to have twice the culture of the 2nd one) rule than I think I can do a space race / Diplomatic victory

 

[Spoonwood]

For a tribe to win a 100k, they have to have double the culture of the next closest tribe *and* have 100k culture on a standard. My curragh didn't sink in my game and I did get contacts. I also settled near the chokepoint and held it.

 

[goyal]

Any way to see the total culture of the other AI's besides the first one which is their in the victory stats ?

 

[Schalke 04]

I don't see any chances of winning this game as well. The location around my coastal capital was not very good, and I really hate those damn barbs. I built enough military to defend my cities and my workers, but I couldn't do enough against the pillaging of my tiles which threw me back hopelessly.

I retired before I went to MA. This game is by faar too difficult for me.

I'm really interested in the progress of other players. If someone manages to control this game I would like to know how his tactics have been. I hope for detailed descriptions for that case

 

[Yilar]

Okay, i've completed my game. I will write uptill 1000bc, as that feels appropiate.
I planted Athens by the coast, as I moved my worker and spotted the game. I planted Sparta on the initial fp spot. I built workers in Sparta off the bat and 2 warriors in Athens. I then did granny and started hammering out 5-turn settlers. Land near cap was absolute crap, few rivers, desert and mass hills eh? And the fight against the barbs was just silly. I ended up letting them rape my cities when the AI entered the middels ages (1350bc) just to get rid of them. There was no end to the amount of barbs. This is by far the hardest singleplayer game i've played. I have never felt so handicapped as I did in this game. I also went to war with egygt early on to try and get him to attack the chokepoint, but he never did attack . Also Egygt was an absolute monster when it came to building, he had 10 cities almost instantly! I traded phil and code with Rome (was the only one without them when I got them!) for wheel, hb and wc. Celts had built The Great Libary in 1250bc and gotten all the techs from Egygt and co.

QSC stats:
13 cities
28 pop
2 Settlers
13 Workers
9 Warriors
1 Curragh
5 Chokepoint defenders
Contact with everyone (though Persia had died before I could find him).
Techs: BW/Alpha/Pot/Wheel/Wc/Writing/Code/Phil/Hb, doing republic atm.

First 40 turns QSC timeline:
3650BC: Complete warrior in Athens
3500BC: Complete 3rd worker
3450BC: Complete 2nd warrior
3150BC: Research pottery
3000BC: Complete 4th worker
2900BC: Complete granny
2590BC: Complete 5th worker
2510BC: Complete 1st settler
2430BC: Plant 3rd city
2270BC: Complete 2nd settler and 6th worker
2190BC: Trade alphabet for WC with rome
2150BC: Plant 4th city
And so on...

 

[goyal]

How were you able to get contact from everyone ? Because as u don't have map making (-->galleys) it is not possible to reach the Island of India. Did they settle on your island ? Also babylonians and pers on India's island must not have settled on your continent so how were you able to contact them ?

 

[Yilar]

--------------------

 

[Kulko]

For the record I quit my first game, when Egypt beat me to the Chokepoint and my game crashed when they demanded my leave. I played a couple more tries, but overall the Barbs are always a major pain in the ass, and I didn't get of the ground.

The area is to big to watch with sentries, so they keep coming from all sides. I was always in the danger of losing workers or improvements and so my economy never got of the ground.

The only way to deal with the uprising was to let them run over my cities, but even afterwards I had 5 to 6 camps on my continent left alive and so every other turn a new horseman came from one side or the other.

Any detailed description of a effective counterstrategy would be very helpful.

 

[Yilar]

How were you able to get contact from everyone ? Because as u don't have map making (-->galleys) it is not possible to reach the Island of India. Did they settle on your island ? Also babylonians and pers on India's island must not have settled on your continent so how were you able to contact them ?

Boats don't always sink in the sea/ocean before navigation/magnetism

 

[eldar]

I played this out to 1500BC, at which point the AI had got Philosophy a couple of turns ahead of me and were out of sight. I was having enough trouble with the Barbarians, let alone the AI, and that was with one city building nothing but warriors.

I could probably have managed to get Philo first if there had been better access to luxuries, and my MPs hadn't kept being killed by Barbarians, meaning I had to push up Lux tax and keep Sci lower. Certainly the 4-5 turns I missed Philo by can be accounted for due to the need to keep Lux up.

Looking at a few of the other accounts, I may pick it up again, build some Hoplites, and sit out until the AI wins. My score may well be competitive!

 

[krakedhalo]

I've played through til I got to MA so far. I stopped there, but if everyone else has given up, I may do like eldar and see if I can stay alive until someone wins.

I settled both cities in place, capital on the coast. Started fighting off barb in about 3200BC, with me losing >70% of barb fights. Spotted an Egyptian warrior in 2950BC and they were only up CB. Following what I thought was smart advice in the pregame forum, I DoW'd, but they never sent a single unit against my stack. It eventually cost me 120g I could not afford to get peace.

I founded my third town 1S of the oasis, and it became a pretty good settler pump. Met Persia second, as my curraghs made it across the straights. Those little guys were about the only positive in this game. I built two, and they survived all ocean crossings asked of them and fought off a combined SEVEN barb galleys before going down. Persia wasn't as ridiculously far ahead as Egypt. Bought CB for 320 from I think Egypt.

By 1500 Egypt already had two cities on my penninsula, India and Carthage would follow soon. Meet all remaining AI by 1100BC, including India and Babylon that turn. Babs don't have writing, so that and 65g got me IW.

1000BC I research Lit. It's by no means a monopoly, but still valuable to Celts, Rome, and Babs. All told, Lit gets me WC, Wheel, Phil, and HBR for 60g and 1 gpt.

650 Celts are dead. India and Egypt are huge. Both have at least two cities on my penninsula. Egypt has SoZ, SZ, working on KT.
590 Trade Babs CoL for Mysticism and 20g.
510 DoW India to get size 5 undefended New Madrid near choke, my side. Barb explosion took care of their defenders. It flips immediately of course, so I retake and raze.
290 Destroy final Indian city on my land. They pay 15 for peace.
70 Buy Poly from rome, 105 + 24pt

AD
10 Babylon goes out
210 Egypt in IA
300 Buy Const. from India, finally enter MA.
1000BC stats:
17 pop, 10 towns. 6 workers, 10 warriors, 5 hoplites, 1 curragh, 5 chokepoint warriors.

 

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

Playing Sid intrigued me so I decided to give a COTM a try. I haven't played Civ in a while but I was sure with two cities, two workers, and a choke point I would do fine.

My settled both initial cities on their spots with the capital in the more central location. I lost 6 pop due to disease before I could get a settler out.

I lost seven or eight Currags because of Barbarian galleys each before I gave up trying to explore by sea so I have no idea what there is outside my island and I have only met the Egyptians and the Carthaginians who found me. The land based barbarians weren't too bad. They only killed a few Hoplites(the defense bombardment was useless), a settler, two workers, and ransacked my cities a couple hundred times.

What really pissed me off was that the Barbarians completely ignored Egypts warrior/settler pairs and instead focused on my chokepoint units fortified in the mountains. As a result I have two Egyptian cities south of the choke-point on hills soon to be defended by Pikemen. Oh yeah, Egypt got the Great Wall too...

All this combined with the fact that I am way behind in tech made me give up in disgust. I had been researching towards Republic but since I only found two luxuries thus far I wish I had gone for Monarchy.

 

[Neo666]

Open, going for any type of victory I can get. That will likely not be my usual domination or conquest victory!

Gotta love those quaterly games!!!!!

I settled my capital on the spot of the more north-east settler as I figured this would be a better spot in the long run. I started on writing on a min run so I could buy pottery.

Athens first build warrior-worker-settler before starting on the granary. Sparta first pumped out about 6 warriors before starting on their granary. The first warrior when straight to the choke-point to scout beyond it, the other were used as MP and/or as scouts to determine future city-spots.

Contacts
I met Egypt very quickly and the Romans and the Celts a couple of centuries after that (+/- 2500BC and +/- 2000BC). Key to keeping up in techs (at least in the beginning) on Sid-level is becoming a tech-broker between the continents so I pumped out some curraghs as quickly as possible which did its trick as I met the Indians and Persians in 1700BC. I had a lot more troubles meeting the 2 remaining civs, I finally met the Babylonians in 1275BC and Carthage in 800BC.

Techs
I traded for Pottery with Egypt quite early and finished writing in 1750BC. As both the Celts and Egyptians already had writing I decided to trade it to Rome for Masonry and WC and started on Library (as I figured I would never be the first one to Philosophy). The first trade frenzy started when I met the Indians and Persians in 1700BC, I managed to end up with BW, the Wheel, CB, Iron working, Mysticism, Maths, CoL, MM, Horseback Riding and Poly and an extra 300 gold.

The second run was in 1100BC when I finished Literature (monopoly), as I didn’t want the Great Library to end up in an Egyptian city or even worse on another continent, I only traded it with the Celts getting Philo and Construction. At that time Monarchy and Republic were already discovered (I figured I could trade for Republic with my free MA-tech), currency not yet.

In 900BC I was able to buy currency and reached the MA (the Indians discovered it in 1000BC, the Celts and Egyptians the turn before I traded for it), the trade frenzy that followed can be read in my next spoiler.

Barbs
Barbarians were anoying and numerous! As I had a lot of gold I could not let them raze a city of mine so I went to war against them! I lost a lot of units, a couple of citizens and also 1000 gold. In short; pretty annoying but I had total control over them around 150BC with some help of the Egyptians (an Egyptian spearman killed about 20 barbarian horsemen!!).

QSC stats
1 city
9 towns
34 population
1 settler
12 workers
7 warriors
2 horsemen
5 hoplites
1 curragh