COTM73 - First Spoiler

[civ_steve]

COTM 73 First Spoiler - the Ancient Age!

Reading Requirements

1. You must be able to research a Middle Age technology.

Posting Restrictions

• Please be discreet about AI locations; however, feel free to discuss contacts and trades.
• No discussions of the middle ages (or later)
• No screenshots of any middle-age (or later) resources.
• Absolutely NO discussion of any other currently active 'X'OTM!

Did you like the starting location? Where exactly did you found and why? You do have neighbors - how did you come across them, and how are they behaving? I did feel I had to give a "little" help to one of the AI starting on your landmass - can you tell which one and how they were helped? And how is the game going?

 

[Megalou]

My guess is that you gave some extra dromons to Byzantines. I had to put about 10 horsemen on the spices tile to prevent the Byzantines from scorching the road there. But I can't be sure since this is deity and the dromons are cheap. Perhaps knowing the whole map of the starting continent, which I don't, would help us to guess. The human player was certainly helped by the lack of strategic resources for Mongols and India. Still, it's a pretty tough game.

 

[templar_x]

and that´s your whole spoiler, Megalou?

then you might find mine a bit lengthy...

my Predator ancient age:

early worker actions:
i cow, m 2nd cow, r 2nd cow, 1 forest chop, connecting new town sites

early builds:
w-w-worker-granary in 3050, 4-turner operational. settler-settler-archer-settler

early research:
Pot in 3250bc. Min on Writing.

first warrior south, 2nd warrior east
see wheat in 3600bc for probable 2nd city site. 3550 see BH (bady hut). 3500 incense. 3450 spices. 3250 meet India, Pot to 1 turn, they have only their 2 towns. 5 techs up. their gold is gone, so they know someone. trade Mas+5gpt+5g for Alpha. 3150 see gems. 3000 meet Byz, can trade for BW+35g. they have 3 towns. 2900 see first barb village, 2nd warrior runs back to capital, but gets killed.

2710 build 2nd town 4SE by the wheat, get warrior (not too bad)
meet Mongols in 2590bc, they have 4 towns.
2550 found 3rd town 2W2NW by the cow, finding a 2nd cow. looks like a WF to me! buy an Indian slave.
2510 my archer LOSES against barb *grrrrrrrr*
2470 Writing already known.
2390 Byz build Col.
2310 4th town 3 SW. fort warrior on hill loses against attacking barb warrior :crazyeyes:
2270 buy Writing for a 2-fer with TW. see horses next to last built town. Min on Philo.
2150 5th town 3S
2110 another archer dies, attacking a barb on flat land. this is impossible!
1870 6th town 7SE (safe area at this time)
1750 7th town on eastern incense
1700 8th town 2N
1675 Philo around
1525 9th by the gold hill
1450 10th 2E and 11th by the western incense
1275 WF finally operating
1200 2nd lux connected
1150 first suicide curragh makes it over. i´m lucky here. meet Vikes, 10 towns, pretty much the same techs as own continent.
1125 Byz get Currency 2 turns before me. ok, trading time. leaving the other continent until i meet more ppl, i get every non-optional AA tech but Con, Poly and MM. Rep in 22. the others reach the MA, causing the barb uprising before i can clear 2 camps.

qsc 1000bc:
15 cities
42 pop
143 land
1 settler, 13 workers, 1 slave, 8 warriors, 1 archer, 1 chariot, 4 horses, 3 curraghs
2 luxes and horses connected
2 grans and 4 rax
contacts with India, Mongols, Byzanz, Vikes

900 meet England, enter MA.

my RNG luck is only good for the navy, otherwise it sucks so far, and it continued like that. i lost quite a few units against barbs and against AI def-1 units with superior attackers.

and i am quite unhappy about my trading and development. i feel things should go much faster, but i just might be playing too many Deity and Sid HOF games lately...

templar_x

 

[Memento]

Predator Class
Deity and Continents.Great Libary are compulsory for me.
Its bad for QSC Stats, but I neglected this time.

Worker SW,move Settler SE to place a town W from the left cow
3950 Capitol,Worker irrigate,research ABC minimum
3700 Warrior->go S
3500 Warrior->f
3150 Settler
3050 meet India,trade Masonry+WC for Pottery+CB
3000 meet Byzanz,trade Masonry+Pottery for ABC+10g
2nd town 3SE,pop 25g
2670 Granary
meet Mongols,trade Masonry for BW+10g
2470 3rd town 2W
2430 war with India,take 2 Workers
2270 4th town 2SW 1S
1990 5th town 2NW 1N
1950 6th town 3E 1SE
1830 7th town
1675 8th town
1175 9th town,take Indian Settler
1150 destroy Karachi,take Settler
1100 trade CoL from Mongols for 17gpr+110g
peace with India,give Col,2gpr+25g for TW,IW,Mystic,Philo
1025 war with Byzanz
1000 take Heraclea

10 towns,35 Pop,8 Archer,6 Warrior,3 Spearman,1 Settler,5 Worker,5 Slaves
5Barracks,3 Granarys, Prebuild for Great Libary with 127 Shields

900 take Byzanz Settler
trade Mathe
850 Byzanz+India Ally
lost 3 Elite Archer
825 Mongols will 40g,i give
775 Byzanz+Mongols Ally
710 take Indian 2 Settlers
650 Literature->GL 10 Rounds
peace with India,i give 2 gpr
610 give India Literature to war with Mongols+Byzanz
590 Mongols destroy 1 India town,1 India Spearman kills 6 Mongolshorses near my Border
550 England destroy
450 Great Libary
430 GL gives MM,HR,Poly,Currency,Rep,Mona,Construction
MA

Iron is far away,Civ_steve du bist ein Sadist.

My guess is that you gave some extra dromons to Byzantines.

My guess too.

Now i´m at the End of MA and i don´t know whether i go for Dom,Con or ........

 

[templar_x]

Did you like the starting location?

sure, it was sweet. nothing else i could have wished for.

Where exactly did you found and why?

in place. if you had wanted me to move, you would have had to pay me in cash for that.

You do have neighbors - how did you come across them, and how are they behaving?

oh, they are behaving nicely, warring a bit with each other and waiting for my conquest.

I did feel I had to give a "little" help to one of the AI starting on your landmass - can you tell which one and how they were helped? And how is the game going?

i have no clue. did you make sure the Mongols get their horses easily?

templar_x

 

[Memento]

1150 first suicide curragh makes it over. i´m lucky here. meet Vikes, 10 towns, pretty much the same techs as own continent.
900 meet England, enter MA.

WtH
unsinkable Curraghs?

WF finally operating

What means WF?

 

[Megalou]

and that´s your whole spoiler, Megalou?

Would it spoil your fun if I don't write one?

 

[templar_x]

WtH
unsinkable Curraghs?

sure, didn´t you produce any of those?

What means WF?

worker factory

@ Megalou - sure it would.

templar_x

 

[Megalou]

Predator, settling in place

Nothing special to mention here except a few mistakes. We acquired pottery quite late. I went for the republic sling shot but failed to get it. None of the four civs we had contact with got philosophy before us, but apparently some unknown civ did.

We produced no unsinkable curraghs or galleys - in fact I think they all came with big holes in them. But with Scandinavia building the Great Lighthouse and procuring a naval movement of 5 and safe passage on sea tiles, they made contact with us in 875 BC. But I made my first contact as late as 2150 BC.

I've had some problems balancing micromanaging/optimization in core with the larger issues like contacts and exploration. I think subconsciously I am playing ptw, assuming that I will have a world map soon after map making.

Iron is far away,Civ_steve du bist ein Sadist.

Iron was in just about the right distance. To connect iron early and upgrade useful swordsmen you would have had to make a trade-off of some kind. I settled for some archers and horsemen instead. There were barbs coming from all directions and I couldn't afford to keep a large stack of military in the SE to protect a large stack of workers.

450 Great Libary

Good move, but I can't believe it when you say that GreatLib is compulsory for deity/continents. It's kind of a basic rule that to become as good a player as you are, you have to resist the GreatLib as a kind of basic training.

I'm in a poor position but will probably make an effort to finish. Entered MA in 570 BC.

 

[Memento]

sure, didn´t you produce any of those?

I am not surprised that you build Curraghs, but that creates a Curragh this long without sinking. [Moderator Edit - information that some players wont know until Nav is known] I did not think that's possible. I will probably have to adapt my example. Again learned something.

for some archers and horsemen instead

i didn´t build any Swordman.first Archers,then only chariots and horseman.

Good move, but I can't believe it when you say that GreatLib is compulsory for deity/continents. It's kind of a basic rule that to become as good a player as you are, you have to resist the GreatLib as a kind of basic training.

may be, but I'm so used to me and it works really well as always.
it saves a lot of money and I later had about 1500g and that was for a rider upgrade very helpful.

as good a player as you are, you have to resist the GreatLib as a kind of basic training

One could also say a good player never use leader,bonus settlers or kamikaze curraghs/galleys?
Or I have now understood wrong with my modest knowledge of english?

 

[Megalou]

One could also say a good player never use leader,bonus settlers or kamikaze curraghs/galleys?
Or I have now understood wrong with my modest knowledge of english?

What SirPleb and others have said is that players who always build the Great Library won't learn other strategies. You are already a skilled player, so you can use any strategy you want. Using a beginners' strategy can be even more ingenious. I don't know why I brought it up.

 

[Memento]

players who always build the Great Library won't learn other strategies.

Now I understand what you mean.
with my English, it can happen that I do not understand something immediately or wrong.
the google translator is not always a big help

Now,after 8 years Civ3 ( ) I still learning with every gotm.

The next deity competition i will play with out GL and will see and what it brings.

 

[painterQ]

Moderator Action: Please read the spoiler instructions before posting.

You are not supposed to discuss ANY Middle Ages events or discoveries in this thread.

 

[Più Freddo]

Predator Class
Going for Conquest

The Beginning

We settled in place and built Warrior, Warrior, Granary, then for a
very long time only four-turn Settlers. After having the luck of
finding a Bonus Grassland under the first chopped Forest, we revised
the spread-sheet to earn even more gold. The priorities in setting up
the Settler Factory were (i) build Granary before a population growth
step, (ii) get a Warrior out scouting and (iii) maximize commercial
input. Research was Pottery on maximum.

Research

The next step was to research Alphabet on maximum. We soon met India
and could evetually trade for the remainder of Alphabet and then went
for Writing on maximum. The last turn of Writing was also bought, the
next target being Philosophy. Luckily, we were the first to discover
Pilosophy, and we chose Currency, the most expensive technology
available after trades, as our bonus technology. For Currency, we
could buy a few more technologies and reach parity with the AI
tribes. Research then went over Literature towards The Republic.

4000 BC Discover Warrior Code
4000 BC Discover Masonry
3300 BC Discover Pottery
2950 BC Learn Alphabet
2030 BC Learn Writing
2030 BC Learn The Wheel
1650 BC Discover Philosophy
1650 BC Discover Currency
1650 BC Learn Mysticism
1650 BC Learn Mathematics
1650 BC Learn Map Making
1650 BC Learn Iron Working
1650 BC Learn Ceremonial Burial
1650 BC Learn Bronze Working
1350 BC Discover Literature
1350 BC Learn Code of Laws
1325 BC Learn Construction
1125 BC Learn Horseback Riding
_975 BC Learn Polytheism​

Expansion

City expansion was not very dramatic. For the first few cities,
because of lack of Warriors, we could not choose the foundation order,
but had to put the cities where the Barbarians were not. Then we just
filled up the space. We tried to found cities close to Goody Huts and
got a Warrior and quite a lot of gold that way. We also made sure to
found a city on the nearest source of Spices in the south before the
Indians would get there.

4000 BC Found Beijing
2750 BC Found Shanghai
2470 BC Found Nanking
2230 BC Found Tsingtao
2110 BC Found Xinjian
2030 BC Connect Horses
1950 BC Found Chengdu
1750 BC Found Hangchow
1750 BC Connect Spices
1675 BC Connect Incense
1650 BC Found Tientsin
1550 BC Found Tatung
1450 BC Found Macao
1400 BC Found Anyang
1375 BC Found Shantung
1325 BC Found Chinan
1275 BC Found Kaifeng
1200 BC Found Ningpo
1000 BC Found Paoting​

Game Progress

We met India and the Byzantines on land and eventually, when our
territory had expanded to the north-west, the Mongols over water. Only
later could we confirm, that they were on the same
continent. Byzantine Dromons were also around killing off the
Barbarian Galleys, thank you, but I think a Warrior made it first into
our view. The other continent made it faster into the Middle
Ages. Just after the QSC period, a suicide Galley made it across to
Germany, which luckily was a bit backward, allowing us to trade for
Polytheism and enter the Middle Ages in 975 BC.

2950 BC Meet India
2850 BC Pop Hut Barbarians
2470 BC Pop Hut Warrior
2390 BC Meet Byzantines
2230 BC Pop Hut 25 gold
1870 BC Meet Mongols
1450 BC Pop Hut 50 gold
1100 BC Massive Uprisings Other continent enters Middle Ages
1050 BC Embassy Mongols Horses, Furs.
_975 BC Meet Germany
_975 BC Enter Middle Ages​

Future

The early entry into the Middle Ages sort of cuts the report of the
Ancient Ages short. I have only just stopped rapid expansion, am
preparing for Republic, building The Forbidden Palace, lots of
Barracks and Horsemen. The plan is to invade India pretty soon (for
Deity), since they are near and have only very few cities. I should be
able to connect Iron before I have researched all the way to
Chivalry. Germany may help. But I suppose a run for Military Tradition
could be needed as well. So a few Libraries may pay off.

Quick Start Challenge Result

_1 City
16 Towns
42 Citizens
_2 Granaries
_4 Barracks
_1 Library
_3 Contacts
_1 Embassy
12 Workers
_1 Slave
_1 Horseman
_8 Warriors
_2 Galleys
_2 Luxuries
Horses
Lacking Polytheism
The Republic in 10
Forbidden Palace in 7​

 

[CKS]

Open, no real hopes for winning.

I settled in place, started on alphabet, and built 3 workers, a granary, and a settler. I got a 4 turn warrior-settler factory going, which put me in an unusual situation for me. One of those rank the civ lists put me first on the most powerful list; since I was about half an age behind in technology with an army that consisted almost solely of warriors I found this amusing. I did have more towns than anyone else, though. I also decided that I would try to build only units and barracks for most of the ancient age. I expected that otherwise I'd not live to enjoy any use of libraries. I did try for the great library, but that turned into a nice forbidden palace with not too many wasted shields as I didn't plan ahead enough.

I met India in 2950, the Byzantines in 2710, and the Mongols in 1870. Masonry got me the last 7 turns of alphabet, ceremonial burial, and some gold. The Indians and Byzantines were at war with each other when I met the Byzantines.

The Mongols declared on me pretty early; I allied the Indians and the war remained pretty uneventful for me. After it was over, at some point I realized that the Indians were small, and I declared on them and took their four towns using horsemen.

I entered the middle ages about 130 BC, still in despotism and preparing for war with the Byzantines. I have contact with all the far-away AI, who have learned astronomy already. I'm less worried about surviving, but it is hard to imagine how I'll catch up.

 

[Megalou]

@Più Freddo,
Great spoiler. There's a write-up to emulate.

 

[Più Freddo]

Great spoiler. There's a write-up to emulate.

Thanks. Unfortunately, I've not had the time to finish the game. I played GOTM103 instead.

 

[Megalou]

I don't have time either. It's a shame because CFC deity is a bit harder then PTW deity and it's a level that doesn't come around that often.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Overall Plan
Going for conquest. I will need to reach cavalry: riders will be fine for kicking off the golden age, but sending them into muskets is no fun. So I will need to research up to Mil Trad, which means using Republic and building libraries in the core. I will certainly be using disconnect/reconnect, which means I will want to get my hands on Leonardo, either by prebuilding it or by capturing it.

Designing the Settler Factory
2 moos is obviously a pretty good start. The tighest option is irrigate one, mine the other, and find a bg; the factory runs starting at size 3.10. If both moos are watered, one can be shared every other turn, but the factory either needs lots of bgs, or must run about one pop higher. Start by sending the worker S to irrigate a moo, and see what is beyond. 2 bgs - very nice, let's go with irrigating both moos. Settle in place, revealing two more bgs in the north, and wheat in the fog to the east. That is certainly enough to run a 4-turn axe+settler combo factory. After spreadsheeting the options heavily, decide to try building a single axe, followed by the granary and only then the second worker.

Messing up the Plan
Start research on Pots. Axe done in 3700bc, and stays in Beijing for military police - I presume there isn't much need to explore because the deity AI have enough units to come and find me soon enough. Pots is done in 3250bc, and I start on Alphabet. There's no harm in trying for the slingshot; the worst that can happen is to get Philosophy and not getting anything else for free. The granary is due the next turn, with a chop completing right on time, but I miss the build because I left Beijing working the wrong forest, i.e. the one being chopped . The next turn after that 2 barbs appear in the southwest. This is all going badly wrong. I switch Beijing to building an axe, but for some reason the barbs aren't very direct in attacking me. They generally shuffle around fortifying on mountains and hopping in and out of the fog. It's frustrating and distracting, but at least I'm not getting damaged much.

Getting the Factory on Track Again
After the extra axe, I throw out a worker to bring Beijing's size back down a bit. Next up is my first settler, completed in 2750bc. He takes an axe as escort and heads southeast, founding Shanghai at RCP2, in order that it can reach the wheat and share a moo with Beijing, allowing both towns to run at +5fpt on average. The next settler also heads south, just because it is the only direction which seems not to be patrolled by barbs. Still no sign of the AI - I was hoping they could be relied upon to keep the barbs down, but I'm now being menaced by horses.

AI Neighbours
The Byzantines are the first AI to finally show up, in 2390bc. I can't trade anything to them, but at least they get busy keeping the barbs thinned out. I still get pillaged a couple of times, and lose a settler trying to reach the incense in the northwest. My settlers do also get escorts now, as Beijing is now set up to run as a 4-turn axe/settler combo. In 1870bc, an exploring axe finds India in the southwest. I am trying to get curraghs out to find more AI, producing nothing else in my coastal towns, but they get invariably sunk by barb galleys guarding the eastern peninsula.

Tech Catch-up
Writing is done in 1600bc, and I find the Indians and Byzantines don't have Philosophy, so I go for it. But when the Germans complete Artmeis in 1450bc (fast!), the English cascade to Mausoleum, so Philosophy must be out: no slingshot for me. On the positive side, India picks up Glib in the cascade, which should be useful for setting up a tech elevator. I finsh Philosophy in 1375bc, and trading it to India and Byzantium gets me Maths, Burial, Bronze and a pocketful of cash. Laws next, as neither of my contacts has it, and I will be heading straight for Republic from here. Trading Laws nets Ironwork, Wheel and Riding. In 1050bc I meet the last local AI, Mongolia, and get to trade Philosophy for Mysticism. So I'm only about halfway throught the ancient tech tree, but trading Republic should get me most of the rest, particularly if I can reach the other continent soonish.

QSC Stats
16 towns with 40 citizens and 163 tiles.
109 food in the bin, 104 shields in the box, 84g in the treasury.
2 granaries, 4 barracks, 1 wall.
2 settlers, 14 workers, 10 axes (reg), 3 archers (vet), 1 horse (vet), 5 curragh (4 reg, 1 vet).
All first and second tier techs, Philosophy, Laws, 209 beakers gathered on Republic.
3 contacts, 1 embassy.