Cows - irrigate or mine?

[vanollefen]

I have been mining my cows for the extra production early, but it seems like the general trend is to irrigate from reading GOM threads. What is the thinking here?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Food is extremely important in early game. Every citizen adds to your production, commerce and empire growth.
Food surplus makes citizens.
We try to do everything to increase our food surplus.

In despotism, irrigating grasland wont get you extra food. Food bonus tiles are the only opportunity to get that so important extra food. Therefore, don't mine them, irrigate them. Even if you have to bring water from 3 tiles distance, that is worth it.

Irrigate them !

And it is also best to micromanage your cities so that they always get the maximum amount of food, but without wasting extra food that could be used by another city. (if your city has 18 food, don't let it use that bonus cow or wheat if it can also be used by another city. Instead, let that city just have 2 food for this one turn and move the bonus tile back to the city next turn if you want) Also, don't use forests or other tiles that produce only 1 food if you can prevent it.

 

[RodRiGoM]

Indeed, in ancient the hardest thing to get is extra food. So, if u can get them, do it! (Chopping down game/forests, irrigating wheats, cows...)

getting the extra food means u can work on forests and get extra production. U only need granaries for that

but if u need irrigate 2 titles before hit the cow, means ur city problably not in a river... So on this case I'd tell u to mine it.

 

[Desertsnow]

Irrigating food resources of any kind greatly increases food production, even under Despotism. So irrigate. If you have several food resources under control of one city, you can mine one on a bonus grassland, once the rest have irrigation, but remember, population growth should be your priority in the earliest stage of the game. And yes, build a granary. Mine grassland and hills. With two irrigated food tiles, a few mines on bonus grassland, and a granary, you'll be producing settlers in four-turn cycles.

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

After a city is size 20 or larger, I mine everything I can, sometimes even plains. Building modern armour or radar artillery in one turn is great.

 

[MAS]

In the early game I irigate food bonuses becouse those are the only tiles that can beat the despo panelty. Food = power.
Even if I have to chain irigation from 4 tiles away.

In the late game I balance food so that my city remains at its maximum size, but so that the least amound of food is wasted. (so a surplus of food will be converted into shields if possible, by mining or moving a citizen to a mountain)
In the few cases I let a city grow to use its full radius, I might go beond size 20 if the specialist adds more than an extra mine. say, a police man, a civil engineer, or maybe even a clown, if that means I can reduce the lux slider.

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

police men and civil engineers?

The police man will help corruption I think, what does the engineer?

In Call to Power there was labours increasing production. Is this what the engineer does?

 

[Mathias]

Civil Engineers add two shields to your production, so long as you are not producing a unit.

These shields are not increased by factory or power plant, so if you can trade the two food that the specialist requires for good shields (not red, wasted shields) then you are better off.

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

Two shields isn't worth much in most occasions, maybe it'll reduce a large project by one turn. In overcorrupted cities it could do some difference tho.

You can not use engineers in the ancient ages? I would guess you need education or something?

 

[Mathias]

Or something: Replaceable Parts

Civil Engineers are most useful for building markets and hospitals in recently conquered and overly corrupt cities.

 

[Ansar]

Dont Civil Engineers reduce improvements by adding 20 shields in the bin?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

a civil engineer is just like adding a mined/railed grassland tile. Except it's more flexible, of course, cause you change it too a scientist or a taxman or a cop, if you want. They are nice.

Especially in highly corrupt towns, since their shields are not corrupted at all...

 

[Offa]

if your city has 18 food, don't let it use that bonus cow or wheat if it can also be used by another city. Instead, let that city just have 2 food for this one turn and move the bonus tile back to the city next turn if you want)

There is a problem with this : by reducing the food surplus to +2 on the turn before growth the governor will attempt to maximize food with the new citizen, potentially losing 2 shields. You really want to MM so that the town has >3 food excess on the turn before growth so the governor behaves. Therefore the food tile ideally needs to be shared out on the turn 2 before growth.

I know that you know all this Wacken, and were just trying to keep it simple, but I couldn't resist. How's the poker going?

 

[Pentium]

There is a problem with this : by reducing the food surplus to +2 on the turn before growth the governor will attempt to maximize food with the new citizen, potentially losing 2 shields. You really want to MM so that the town has >3 food excess on the turn before growth so the governor behaves. Therefore the food tile ideally needs to be shared out on the turn 2 before growth.

Ah, the beauty of Micromanaging...

 

[WackenOpenAir]

There is a problem with this : by reducing the food surplus to +2 on the turn before growth the governor will attempt to maximize food with the new citizen, potentially losing 2 shields. You really want to MM so that the town has >3 food excess on the turn before growth so the governor behaves. Therefore the food tile ideally needs to be shared out on the turn 2 before growth.

I know that you know all this Wacken, and were just trying to keep it simple, but I couldn't resist. How's the poker going?

I've had a kind of vacation from poker last week and am now playing the new gotm. It's just a small map and winning isn't so important anymore to me, so it'll be done quick and i'll be back to "work" soon.

 

[RodRiGoM]

Irrigating food resources of any kind greatly increases food production, even under Despotism. So irrigate. If you have several food resources under control of one city, you can mine one on a bonus grassland, once the rest have irrigation, but remember, population growth should be your priority in the earliest stage of the game. And yes, build a granary. Mine grassland and hills. With two irrigated food tiles, a few mines on bonus grassland, and a granary, you'll be producing settlers in four-turn cycles.

Hm... Lots of wrong things.

First of all, with depotism bonus, u can't just irrigate everything. Irrigations on grasslands is worthless till ure out of depotism, and so are irrigation on oasis, suggars, wines/plains... So u can't just irrigate eveyrthing.

After u're out of depotism, irrigate 3 grassland titles - 2 if u're agri, and micromanage. With granary, u can grow 1 size per turn till size 6, and that means a LOT in any era of civ. (That's also the key for play future start games in the ladder)

About grasslands, in depotism, mine them all, xcept those who got bonus food like Wines, Wheat and Cow, so u can irrigate.

And do not waste ur time mining hills in depotism - takes 2 long and isn't a worthy bonus.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Irrigating an oasis, if you are an agri civ, will give you an extra food under despotism, since if you are agri, irrigating desert gives you an extra food.

 

[RodRiGoM]

ya ya, u get 3 food if ure agri and irrigate a desert

 

[MAS]

police men and civil engineers?

The police man will help corruption I think, what does the engineer?

In Call to Power there was labours increasing production. Is this what the engineer does?

AH, I miss the laborer from CTP. In CTP, food=power, even into the modern and future ages. One of my fav thing to do is maximise food 100% grow a city to size bazillion, and hire all laborers...

Anyway, its a bit of MM to the extreme, but due to rounding issues with both corruption and factory bonus etc, it is sometimes better to have a police man or engineer. The engineer shields are not effected by a factory, but a single extra shield might not be effected ither becouse of rounding issues.
The police man converts 1 red shield into a blue one, AND 1 red coin into a golden one.
But I agree It doesn't matter much though, most often I do it for the clown.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

no - if you are agri and irrigate a desert, you get 2 food, as opposed to 1.

An oasis gives 2 food bonus - so an irrigated desert, for an agri, civ, under despotism, gives 3 food after the penalty.