CPR for a Noob

[KellyM]

OK, 1st time poster so will try not to embarrass myself to much here:

I’ve played the Civ series probably since the original but typically played at the lower levels not venturing much past Warlord. When I have gone onto Noble, I usually end up exiting the game with my tail between my legs. What I am trying to do is become a better player which is the reason for this post. I am not looking for a roadmap to success, just some reasoning on why what I am doing at the start of the game (up to 0 BC) leads me to failure by the end and maybe a tip or 2 on a better way to do something.

Here goes…

I’ve been trying to win via Culture lately (both in Civ 4 and Warlords). I use Gandhi and play normal size continent planet at normal speed. If things go well, i.e. no barbarians show up and no other civ builds the Wonders or gets to a religion before me, etc., my general start goes as follows:

I’ll start off and plop down the settlers at the opening square and start moving the warrior around the city expoloring and looking for huts. I set the 1st city to build a settler and start researching Meditation (Buddhism) and then Polytheism (Hinduism). Once the 1st settler is built, I start working on Stonehenge in City #1 and move the settler out to a location with some resources to create City #2. In City #2, I start working on another settler. Once the settler is created in City #2, I start working on The Parthenon and set up City #3 and again start working on a settler. Finally, after City #3 creates a settler, I pick a wonder to build and setup City #4. In the 4th city, I will then start churning out archers for defense. This will put me somewhere between 750 and 0 BC. I can typically grab all the religions, though I have found in the Warloads expansion, getting all the religions is much more difficult. Sometime around the creation of the 4th city, City #1 (with Stonehenge) has produced a GP Prophet and I’ll build the religion-specific wonder which will ease the cost of the 4 cities. If I am lucky, (about 1/2 the time) I am able to keep the science meter at 100% and the gold from huts will cover the costs of the cities until I have enough income generated from the religion wonders to cover everything.

From this point on, I am pretty much reactionary in all aspects of the game. I try and build wonders (in no particular order other then picking the ones that have the greatest impact on culture 1st), temples, anything that will keep the main 3 culture cities moving towards Legendary status. I will also build temples in other cities so I can get the 3rd (+50% culture) religious buildings in the main 3 cities as soon as I can. As cities develop issues with unrest/unhealthy, I will build buildings to rectify these issues. I will also fill in the influenced areas with new cities as I can and typically finish the game with the same number of cities as most of the other civs. Some of my other flaws include but not limited to are: I have no set Tech path after Polytheism other then trying to get to the religions before others do, I am also not very active in changing the Civics and I turn the workers onto auto. While I know the workers tend to build more farms then needed, I’ve tried to be in control of their actions but I typically find I am worse at controlling them then when on auto.

On the plus side, in the end I typically find I will lead everyone else in researching techs and gold. Once built out, I will get some cities via revolt and have gold coming in anywhere from 25 to 100 per turn which I use to upgrade military units and finish production of buildings/units. On the negative side, I give up some techs/gold to civs when demanded to keep them from attacking because I am typically low man on the totem pole when it comes to military might. I might have 2 long bowman and a spearman in each city but other civs will have 10 to 15 military units (catapults, chariots, horse archers, swordsman, etc.) in each and I can easily be over run which ultimately happens in the end.

I know this “strategy” won’t work at higher levels or in a multi-player environment. Leaving cities defenseless for that long is just begging to be taken over. Additionally, getting all religions at higher levels is probably unrealistic and at Noble level, I am actually trailing in tech research and unable to get to the wonders in time to build them by 1000 AD.

So there you have it. Any advice on what the major flaws are in this strategy and any tips to help me move on would be greatly appreciated.

 

[oyzar]

workersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkersworkers pretty much the key to the game from the level you are at. expect for the very very begining you really really dont want to work unimproved squares.

 

[Elrohir]

It sounds like your entire style is geared towards winning a Cultural victory. Why? I think you should try to win a Space Race or Domination/Conquest victory before going for Cultural. You need to have a firm grasp of how to tech fast, trade and maintain relations with the AI, and build the appropriate military units for defense and offense (AI stomping)

Here's a suggestion: Start a new game as a Financial leader, with the goal of winning the game via Space Race, BUT with at least 25% of the world's land AND population as well. Sound fun? Try to build and work a lot of cottages, with two or three very good production cities constantly churning out units. (Only stopping to build buildings necessary for further growth, like temples so that you can have your production cities larger, for more production - don't worry about banks or libraries in your Heroic Epic city, for example, just keep churning out military units) Try to make at least two AI your friends if you can, which may require you paying close attention to who likes and who hates two - if you try to please two AI who hate each other, they'll both end up hating you. Try and war relatively early, but don't be afraid to stop when you're research goes below 50% and rebuild your economy, and then go to war again.

That's what I would suggest - all you're learning now is how to found tons of religions and build up a lot of culture, which is important for cultural victories, but not much else. If you want to be an all around good player, you'll need to master other things than that. (Although founding the religion of your choice or building key wonders or large amounts of culture in key cities can be very, very important as well)

 

[Cam_H]

Kelly M,

Welcome to CivFanatics!

I agree with Elrohir on the importance of being a good 'all-round' player. One thing in this game you should learn is flexability. Elrohir suggestion of going for Space with mini-milestone Domination targets and exercising 'triangle diplomacy' is a good one. I think that playing a game to Domination + a game to Space would make you a better Cultural victory player than two more consecutive games fine-tuning your Cultural victory efforts!

Assuming we're still talking Cultural here (and not to understate the recommendation above) ...

Some posters will chide you for chasing after religions and World Wonders rather than focussing on building a SoD of half a dozen Axes and a couple of Spearmen and just go out and 'kick some behind' (can also look at other units such as Chariots or Civ-specific unique units) ... but Gandhi is in vanilla Industrious and starts with Mysticism, so chasing these i.m.h.o. isn't such a horrendous move.

I have recently come out of a succession game with a Cultural victory target where the roster was very divided about 'turtling up' versus expansionary warfare. We did end up zig-zagging between the two, but in hindsight I've come to appreciate that it's better to have an empire of 20 cities and go after a Cultural win than 7 to 10. Become a strong Civ, control more land, tech' faster, have more resources at your disposal, and have lots of productive cities that can carry your empire's commercial and military requirements while your three Legendary cities do their thing. That is - even though you seemingly want to go the peaceful and diplomatic route, there's a lot to be said for taking an aggressive approach to ensure that you're strong in the mid-game yet have laid sufficient 'groundwork' to make a Cultural win feasible. The 'usual' rules apply regarding over-expansion in the Classical Era, and you must ensure that commerce doesn't 'go to the dogs' during this phase.

On religions, bear in mind that you can often slingshot (burning Great People on technology discoveries) your way to founding the later ones - a Great Prophet will slingshot you to Christianity, a Great Scientist to Taoism, you might be able to pick up Confucianism with The Oracle, and again Great Prophets to Islam. There's of course no need to found every religion in the game - although I would suggest that having at least four religions in your empire (founded or otherwise) helps. You don't have to use Great People on the turn you get them if you know you can do something better with them later.

Technology-wise, there are a few different paths to take, although Literature-Drama-Music has its appeal, as does chasing the Liberalism 'free technology'. Also the decision to 'turn off' and direct commerce to and then can be situational, but I tend to stop at Chemistry or Steel / Corporation / Democracy. This is a 'generalism' however.

And finally no automated Workers! I don't care how bad you think you are at controlling Workers, you will learn nothing from sticking them on auto except bad tactics. Good players do not do this.

I hope this helps, and best of luck!

 

[dozenlong]

I recommend building a worker with your first city before a settler to start as a small tactical move you can make.

 

[yena]

Building a settler first thing in a new city is not a good idea. You would finish building it much faster, and earn more commerce and science in the mean-time, if you let your city grow to size 3 or so before starting the settler. As other have mentioned, you also need workers before settlers. Never use an unimproved tile. Also concentrate on food first - settle in food-rich locations, get the techs needed for improvements early, get enough workers.

 

[Harbourboy]

It is not necessary to found lots of religions to get a cultural victory (unless you have an isolated start). It can usually be more efficient to let them spread to you. Instead, you can use those precious early beakers on more important techs (such as improvements for the workers the other posters have urged you to build)

 

[ohjames]

If you really want to expand rapidly, start with Worker-Worker-Settler (or Worker-Workboat-Settler, if you have Fishing and access to a sea resource) so that you can speed your production up by chopping down forests. Bronze Working required.

 

[MrCynical]

As others have emphasized you should really start with a worker rather than a settler. The only exception is if you start with fishing and have a seafood resource at your capital, when a work boat is preferable. Improved tiles generate so much more that you'll probably get your first settler out fast this way than if you built it straight. You also might want to let your city grow a bit between the worker and settler; could build some scouts or warriors to pass the time, or just possibly Stonehenge depending on the terrain.

 

[cabert]

As usual I agree with cam_h (Sometimes I wonder why I bother posting, but if I didn't I wouldn't be big mouthed, would I?).

A few more things :
1) there are 2 ways of growing :
- horizontally (like you seem to do) by settling loads of cities
- vertically by growing your cities

IMHO a size 1 (and even size 2) city is more of a burden than a help.
You really should grow your cities before building settlers.
I really cannot emphasize enough that you need workers for your cities to be any worth.
Even if you really want to build a settler first (which I don't see as a good option), you second city should start building a worker ASAP and then some troops (after size 3, your cities will be unhappy without garison).

2) size matters
You won't be able to win a cultural without enough cities. It seems to contradict what I said earlier but it really doesn't. You'll be able to expand faster with bigger cities than you could with small ones.
If you want an "academic" cultural victory, you need at least 9 cities, in order to build cathedrals in every wanabee legendary city.
For other victory conditions, it depends on the play style, but obviously for domination you're going to need a lot more cities. I favour a rather constant expansion speed (mostly slow, to avoid economic difficulties).
For space, I like to be in a dominant position like twice the size of the next big guy, but it's not always necessary.
For diplomacy, let's just say it's not what I do best.
For time, you need to have points, and most come from population.

3) trade
On the lower levels, you won't trade a lot, because you'll be the happy leader and no one will have anything to offer.
The more you climb, the more trading becomes the name of the game.
You can trade techs for other techs.
You can sell techs.
You can bribe a leader into warring another for techs.
You can trade resource for resource.
You can sell resources.
you can sell maps...
Do you do those things? They not only give you the advantage of the the trade, they also give you diplomatic bonuses...

4) Do you know how to make friends?
You don't want to be the one every AI dogpiles on.
This means you need to make friends.
It's really difficult to be friendly with everyone, since relations improve with trading, and trading generates "you traded with ouir worst enemy" penalties.
Often, it's not possible to do so, you have to choose sides.
Or you can try to bring all your neighbour to love you by spreading your religion to them (or by selecting the most popular religion, regardless of what you did to spread them).
The rest of the diplomacy is a bit tricky, and I advise you reading about it, it does make a difference. Read Aelf's emperor master challenges to learn everything about it .

5) do you have the power to treat your enemies right?
If there are so many units in cIV, it's because you really need an army to deter your enemies or to react to an agression, or to go conquering the world.
A good army is just big enough to do what you want, not bigger not smaller.
At low levels, 10 units are often enough to conquer a neighbour. The more you climb the levels, the more units you'll need to do anything.

 

[KellyM]

First off, thanks for the welcome and thanks to everyone that took time in responding, it's appreciated!

I'll take some time and play a few games and put the sugestions to practical use and go from there.

Once again, thanks for all the feed back.