Crazy Spatz's Alpha Centauri Mod

Cool, but I'll watch out for the AI, as they already got bonuses and extra cheat.
What will the AI do with those? Wouldn't they get confused and think that they get a boost or wathever, or try to demolish these?

All of the bonuses the AIs get are multiplicative. So this sort of change won't affect the relative balance of AI-vs.-player; the AI might only need 80% as much production to build a building, but both the AI and the human will be getting the same +X added to the city's base values.

AI confusion is not a problem; you can't demolish buildings that have zero maintenance. Since you can't build them (cost -1), the AI basically pretends they don't exist and just benefits from the effects of the buildings without caring about where the effects come from.

And in case you didn't know, I've actually been using this mechanism for several versions now; there's a hidden +1 Happiness building that gets added and removed to cities whenever you use an Empath specialist slot. Since specialists can have Flavor values, the AI even knows that using those specialists results in happiness, even if it doesn't know HOW.

Wouldn't be better that once the unit sails (And lose the movement), automatically regains movement,

But that'd still cost you one turn embarking, and one turn disembarking. That's what I'm trying to avoid here; right now, if you've got a 1-hex channel of water between two landmasses, it takes several turns to get across. This way, that water would only cost you one movement point.

I've got other ways to improve on this, but that's the basic idea. One issue is pathfinding; the AI would still think going around by land would be faster, because it wouldn't know about the movement refunding. I'm working on that.

That would make more sense, punish the civ who reached Centauri first with increased spawn

In my original design, launching the ship would also create a "First Nest" Natural Wonder near your capital, a permanent wonder that'd give extra incentive for being the first to launch, but that would (at least initially) give that civ heavier mindworm spawns. In the end I dropped that as too problematic, both mechanically and graphically. But the idea of having the launching civ have the heaviest initial infestation appealed to me.

Spore towers could be handled like Barbarian camps, that become some sort of fortress where there randomly spawn some psi units.

That's basically what they are already. Every turn they're alive, they have a chance of spawning various types of psi units. But I had to do them as units (which can be killed) instead of Improvements (like the barb camp) for practical reasons. What I'm trying to do is make them a bit tougher to kill.

Also, Psi units, also of being immune to nukes, they could get stronger each time they get hit by one, while recovering health and other bonuses (...).

Unfortunately, you can't do that; the combat event for nukes has no information about who or what is being affected by the blast. There IS a Lua function to see if a specific unit has been nuked, but the overhead necessary for this makes it impractical to use for these sorts of triggered effects. I'm seeing if there's a way around that limitation, but no luck so far.

That would be cool. But it won't really make much sense; aren't there some buildings that generate uranium???

Only the Fusion Lab (1 unit per) and Supercollider (10 units, but it's a Wonder).

And that's not enough to avoid the issue I'm describing. Right now, it's possible for a map to have no Uranium whatsoever. On smaller maps, this is even fairly likely. The reason is that resource distribution is probabilistic; the game sees a Hills tile and says "this has a 1 in 12 chance of having a resource on it." On a huge map, where there might be a hundred hills, no problem, but on a small map that might only have a handful? And of those 1/12, only a small fraction will have a given resource. The result is that it's easily possible for a map to have no deposits of Aluminum, Uranium, et cetera. depending on the exact geography.

This was absolutely crippling with Coal; a civ without Coal simply could not keep up, because of how powerful Factories are, and in a game where you were expected to go into future eras it was just untenable. So, I put in an override, where no matter what the randomization gave, the game would auto-place an additional N/4 small deposits of Coal on the map, where N is the number of civs (including city-states). I reduced a few probabilities to compensate, but the result is that if before you'd see 0-10 deposits on the map, it's now more like 3-7; less randomization, same average. If you've played my mod in the past three or four months, you've benefited from this change. This still doesn't guarantee the coal deposits are in your territory, so there's still motivation to go to war, but it was enough to ensure that there'd at least be SOME out there to go after.

The question is whether I should do the same for the other strategics. Reduce randomness across the board, to prevent a map from crippling all players other than the one lucky enough to get a local deposit. I've done this from the start for my custom resources, and Iron and Horses are common enough that they don't need it, but the others?

Those should give a small chance, but cumulative, of nuke interception. Overall with all those build the % chance should be like now (So players could get some projects to defend themselves from nukes before SDI; while at the same time nerfing the SDI).

First of all, the term SDI does not automatically mean orbital weapons. It includes those railguns, long-range interceptor missiles, airborne lasers, et cetera; the name has changed over the last couple decades, but it's the same programs as before. (Besides which, railguns wouldn't come any earlier in the tech tree than the early Digital era.)
Second, those other things, like AAA, are the reason why I added that minimum chance of nuke interception (30% for A-bombs, 20% for missiles, 10% for PBs). That's what the minimum chance represents, the possibility of using existing non-dedicated defensive systems to prevent a nuke from impacting or having its full effect. Maybe you got lucky and shot down the bomber, maybe you got everyone into bunkers in time.

Originally, I'd handled this through giving the Manhattan Project a 15/10/5% chance and reducing the SDI project accordingly (45/30/15, instead of its current 60/40/20); I talked about this in a couple posts made before the final version was released. In practice, this didn't work well; I needed to add the minima anyway to protect city-states, since they can't build projects, so there just wasn't much point in adding anything with that small of a percentage.

Nuke resistant appeals more to me, say it reduces the chances of the unit to be destroyed by the nuke and if it survives, reduces the damage taken overall.

You just can't do that, at least with the XML/Lua we have at present. It's pretty much all or nothing. Hence the question.
 
Just so everyone knows, I just got the All-Terrain promotion working. The Vertol, Nessus Worm, and Gravship can now move across both oceans and land, and never embark. While I'd originally intended to give this to the Gravtank as well, I've decided not to for a few balance reasons. Best of all, the method I used SHOULD, in theory, be transparent to the AI; it'll think that every hex is valid, so should take full advantage of it.

There's just one minor headache: to do this, I had to change these units to DOMAIN_SEA. (Effectively, their ability to move across "impassable terrain" lets them move on land.) The problem is that this means that buildings that add XP or production to land units won't trigger for these, while the Seaport and Harbor will (in this mod, anyway). It's annoying, but I can live with it for now.
 
Just so everyone knows, I just got the All-Terrain promotion working. The Vertol, Nessus Worm, and Gravship can now move across both oceans and land, and never embark. While I'd originally intended to give this to the Gravtank as well, I've decided not to for a few balance reasons. Best of all, the method I used SHOULD, in theory, be transparent to the AI; it'll think that every hex is valid, so should take full advantage of it.

There's just one minor headache: to do this, I had to change these units to DOMAIN_SEA. (Effectively, their ability to move across "impassable terrain" lets them move on land.) The problem is that this means that buildings that add XP or production to land units won't trigger for these, while the Seaport and Harbor will (in this mod, anyway). It's annoying, but I can live with it for now.

Dunno, can you add a check that if the city who build those has the Xp enhancing buildings (barracks and those) automatically add the XP for such units?

Also, are you sure those changes you added wouldn't cause some sort of exception or error that ultimately lead to a crash?
 
Dunno, can you add a check that if the city who build those has the Xp enhancing buildings (barracks and those) automatically add the XP for such units?

It's possible, although not easy. And while I can do that for the XP part, AFTER the unit is built, there's nothing I can do about the build time; the Forge and Arsenal boost production of land units, while the Harbor does the same for sea units. On the bright side, as a Titan unit the Gravship would still get the production boost from the Spaceship Factory, and as a Psi unit the Nessus Worm would still get the boost from the Brood Pit. So it wouldn't change build times by THAT much, and I'm inclined to just go with it.

Also, are you sure those changes you added wouldn't cause some sort of exception or error that ultimately lead to a crash?

Sure? No; given this game's stability issues nothing is ever SURE. But it's extremely unlikely that this'd cause crashes; it's simply based on the idea that to a naval unit, "impassable" means land, and the "hovering unit" type promotions take care of those types nicely.

That's not to say that this method doesn't have its own quirks:

> While they're sea units, they would NOT trigger things like the Great Lighthouse or Maritime Control Center, because those give promotions based on the Naval combat class.
> These units would still be Armor/Psi/Titan/whatever, and so would also not be subject to the Naval Penalty-type promotions.

Both of the above are good things, in that the units would act like they're still the land units they were originally meant to be.
But on the downside:

> Submarines would be able to attack them (since the torpedo attacks are domain-only). Not a problem for my future units, because by the time you reach Vertols the subs should be upgrading to Stealth Ships (which CAN attack land), but it'd keep you from adding a Zeppelin-type unit in earlier eras, or an Airship-type fantasy unit.
> Bombers/Needlejets who pick the Bombardment (vs. Land) promotion wouldn't get a bonus against them, while those that picked Air Targeting (vs. Sea) would.
> Likewise, naval units that took their own Targeting would also get a bonus vs. them. I'm actually okay with this one, because naval units are on a substantially lower power scale, so anything that'd help protect them from these units would be good.
> Pre-Astronomy, oceans aren't impassable to them. Not really an issue for my future units, of course.

Today I'm going to do substantially more testing on all of this. But frankly, these negatives are far less significant to me than any of the issues I'd had with previous methods.

EDIT: New quirk I found: as a Sea unit, the Germans don't get a bonus for killing Nessus Worms, but the Ottomans DO. So if you're Suleiman and kill a wild nessus worm, you have a 50% chance of gaining one of your own... I actually kinda like this.
 
Well, today I got around to doing something I'd wanted to do for a while now: Unit Flags. I've attached an image showing one of each unit this mod adds, except that the orbitals/air units are all in the city and only show icons when you select them. All of the symbols were taken from SMAC, as parts of existing icons for techs or buildings. (I still need to resize a few of them, so they're not quite done, but at least they're there now.)

Anyone want to guess which units are which, based solely on the icons I selected? Obviously, once I get actual 3D models in, it'll be a lot easier to tell the units apart.
 

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Hey, would the tunnel boring machine be incompatible with your mods?

It says it changes ActionIcons.lua and UnitPanel.lua
 
I'm curious about which unit the yin and yang symbol is for though

That's the Great Empath. (Makes sense if you think about it.)

Top row: Combat Engineer (that's their castle symbol), Scout Powersuit (eyeball), Mind Worm (that's the mindworm symbol from SMAC), Golem, Chiron Locusts
Second row: Troll, Gravtank, Great Empath, Skimmer, Mobile Shield, Doppelganger
Third row: Spore Tower, Combat Mech, Laser Infantry, Ranger (it's a pine tree), Labor Mech (that's the SMAC symbol for minerals), Nessus Worm, Colony Pod (that's the "cityscape" SMAC symbol used in several Wonders)
Fourth row: Assault Powersuit, Plasma Artillery (SMAC symbol for the plasma tech), Stealth Ship (SMAC symbol for naval units), Isle of the Deep, Vertol (part of the SMAC symbol for the Superconductor tech)
Bottom row: Bolo, Former, Leviathan (anchor), Gravship

Not shown: the air/space units, like the Geosynchronous Survey Pod (uses the SMAC symbol for the same), Needlejet (SMAC "wing" symbol), and of course the Quantum Missile.

Whoops, did I mention the Quantum Missile? Yep, I've added one more unit. It's a late-game upgrade of the Guided Missile, at Matter Compression (end of Fusion Era). Something that gets around the anti-nuke defenses of SDI and the ODPs, the anti-orbital defenses of the ODPs, and the anti-air defenses of Plasma Artillery and such. Basically, it was stupid that missile-carrying units like the Combat Mech and Leviathan were still needing a Nuclear Era unit to carry, and I wanted a one-shot weapon that would work well against Titans.

Besides just being pretty good damage in general (120 ranged attack, although I might bump it further), it does something else fun: when targeted on a unit (not a city), it reduces its power by 33% but deals damage to all adjacent enemy units (and NOT your own units). When targeted on a Titan, it still does the splash damage, but its damage is NOT reduced, so it's effectively +50% vs Titans. Air units (inside a city) and Garrisoned units are not harmed.
Also, when it targets a unit outside a city, it places Fallout on the hex, although it doesn't destroy improvements. It won't do this if the hex has any other Feature, meaning natural wonders, forests, or jungles.
I also wanted it to be able to damage any units hiding inside a city it targets, but I can't find a way around the fact that there's no positional information in the combat events when you target a city.
Also, it's resourceless, so city-states can build them. Heh, heh, heh. You have been warned.

I'd originally thought of giving that sort of splash damage to the Death Ray, but that made it too much like the Subspace Generator. Then I'd thought of making the Subspace a non-nuclear attack that did this, but then I got SDI working and decided I still wanted a no-intercept repeatable nuke.

Hey, would the tunnel boring machine be incompatible with your mods?

It says it changes ActionIcons.lua and UnitPanel.lua

Yes, it would be, because I alter ActionIcons.lua. Although, it's actually a very easy thing to merge, assuming they're not adding new icons. (If they are, then forget it.)
 
Also, something Ive been meaning to ask, what are you going to do about Neutronium? Since it uses the same resourse image as aluminum but needs a quarry, so this turns the tile blank.
 
Also, something Ive been meaning to ask, what are you going to do about Neutronium? Since it uses the same resourse image as aluminum but needs a quarry, so this turns the tile blank.

All three new resources have this issue. I was HOPING to override the standard art defines for this, or create new ones for these resources, but the definitions are buried within Civ5ImprovementArtDefinesSchema.xsd. I'm trying to figure that one out, so that it'll draw the Quarry/Offshore Platform/Fishing Boats/Camp correctly for the three new resources, but I'm not even sure it CAN be overridden through a mod; after all, sound defines are in an easily accessible XML but you can't seem to add new sound defines. (I've tried.)

So I'm still working on it, but I have no way to know for sure if it's even possible to override these in ways that would look right. I CAN change the resources back, to where Neutronium uses a Mine, and so on, but that's a poor solution to the problem.
 
What if you made Neutronium look like marble? Would probably make more sence for it to be a substance found in rock as opposed to a metallic ore

Also: I know this has almost 0 effect on me, but why did the devs make mines the main production improvement instead of quarries? A quarry would be harvesting stone for the city, but what are empty mines mining exactly?
 
Again, be aware that Great Plains is one of the three incompatible map scripts. (Lakes and Highlands being the other two.)

Sorry - should have been more specific that I was posting this again because the game wasn't crashing using this script (i.e. I hadn't previously been aware of this aspect, so thought I would share).

Meaning? Are they too cheap, is the AI building too many of them, or what? You're allowed to have 10 per empire, but their cost is low enough that 10 should cost what a single Project in that era would normally require.

The AIs were building a goodly amount of these. :goodjob:


Yes, that's the whole point of them. You move them wherever in the world you want visibility, and at the end of the turn (note: AFTER the AIs have had a chance to kill them, depending on where you ended their movement), they'll snap back to the city they were built in.

Well thats a pretty cool unit! :goodjob: I'm not sure how well the AIs will use these units, but I think I'll be building a few as forward scouts.


This'll depend heavily on the Aggressiveness ratings of the AIs you're playing against, which are somewhat randomized each game. A game against Napoleon, Askia, and Montezuma will balance very differently on this than one against Wu Zetian and Gandhi.

This is happening in games where I've had several wars previous (against known aggressive AIs such as Greece and France), then all of a sudden nothing. I'll keep playing around with this and see if I can define it better.


On to other notes:

1) concerning the "Brute question" pic: this is something I run into every so often with the Germans where my empire has no iron, so when I clear a camp and get a Brute I am stuck with the unit as is (at least until I can build Wall Street). I hate to delete the unit, but its pretty worthless in the Nuclear era.

2) Concerning "No forests for the Iriquois": painfully learned lesson playing against the Iriqouis and having them glide effortlessly around my bogged down units. I've taken to chopping wide swaths around my domain because of this. One thing I noted is that a city gets a decreasing return on chopped forests the farther the tiles are from the city, till after 5 tiles there is no return. Is this something you did, or a core element of the game. Regardless, I looked in the Civilopedia and couldn't find a reference to this effect.

3) Concerning "India's long memory": the background on this was that I had conquered Seoul very early in the game. Right after I had taken Seoul the Indians asked me to stop my aggression against Seoul, to which I chose the reply option stating I would stop my aggression against Seoul (which was true, because the city was already mine). The next turn the Indians chastised me, saying I couldn't be trusted. This pic was taken well over a hundred turns later: I hope that the code is working correctly here and that the AIs are logging "events" of this nature and storing them away for the duration of the game.

4. I'd been bombarding a C-S worker with artillery, damaging it. The turn after I captured the damaged Worker, it was fully healed. Is that a bug?

5. Question on the Breakout and NL units: can they capture cities? Also, what if they capture a Colony Pod: would they plant a city, or does the unit just go to the Tower (i.e. like captured workers and settlers)?


D
 

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I hate to delete the unit, but its pretty worthless in the Nuclear era.

Depending on your policies, it might still be worth it to garrison it, but generally yes, not worth the unit maintenance. The fact that every unit has an identical maintenance cost is one of the more annoying facets of Civ5's balance; Titans should REALLY cost more to maintain than a stone age Warrior.

One thing I noted is that a city gets a decreasing return on chopped forests the farther the tiles are from the city, till after 5 tiles there is no return. Is this something you did, or a core element of the game.

Core game.

I hope that the code is working correctly here and that the AIs are logging "events" of this nature and storing them away for the duration of the game.

I believe they are. Note that there's an issue of simultaneity involved here; the AI had probably decided to confront you about Seoul before the turn even started, so from its point of view you agreed with them and then conquered the thing anyway.

I've run into problems like this with the spaceship. Basically you have to delay everything by a turn, because the normal cycle of turns starts with the player, and everything happening in all of those turns is considered simultaneous.

4. I'd been bombarding a C-S worker with artillery, damaging it. The turn after I captured the damaged Worker, it was fully healed. Is that a bug?

Not a bug. When a worker or settler is "captured", it's actually deleted and replaced with a new unit, although the game remembers which unit it originally was in case you capture it back. Notice how a captured Settler turns into a Worker... it's not inherent to the type, there's an explicit <Capture> field in the Unit definition file.

5. Question on the Breakout and NL units: can they capture cities?

They shouldn't be able to. Psi units and the Vertol (like the Gunship before it) start with the "Cannot capture cities" negative promotion. For a long time this wouldn't actually do anything, but recently it seems to be working; the Vertol and Gunship, at least, can remove all of a city's HP but can't capture it. So I guess they fixed this in the last patch.

Now, the Barbarian faction CAN still make normal units from camps, if for some reason they still have camps in the later eras. But these are limited to resourceless units, which top out at Laser Infantry and don't include any of my resourceless secondhand Tanks and such. So the chance of them capturing any cities in the later eras are VERY slim.

Also, what if they capture a Colony Pod: would they plant a city, or does the unit just go to the Tower

You can't capture a Colony Pod. It's a 50-strength combat unit, and if you kill it it just dies. This doesn't need a combat rating to work; Combat Engineers are also not capturable, because they have no <Capture> entry. The only units that can ever be captured are the stock Worker and Settler, and a captured Settler turns into a Worker because that's what its <Capture> entry says. So Barbs can't settle cities, because they'll never have a unit that can do that.

I'd toyed with the idea of allowing mindworms to be capturable, but since you can't make it probabilistic (like SMAC had), I dropped the idea. I suppose I could code something up in Lua, but it's not really a high priority.
 
The AIs were building a goodly amount of these.

The problem isn't that they're building so many, it's that I forgot that building a Project, ANY project, gives a notification to all of the other players. So you'll get 10 ODP messages per civilization, which can obviously get annoying.

dinobot386 said:
What if you made Neutronium look like marble? Would probably make more sence for it to be a substance found in rock as opposed to a metallic ore

But if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

If it looks like marble and harvests like marble, then there'd be no way to tell it apart from marble except for the resource icons, which some people don't use. I want these to be graphically distinct. Now, the current graphic is obviously a placeholder until I can figure out how to edit the resource graphics. But I plan on sticking with the mineral idea, although I'll change the color to a dark purplish metal. The problem is that the game just doesn't know how to handle putting a Quarry graphic on top of the Aluminum graphic, and I've been trying to parse the database files to figure out how to override that. I'm close, I think.

While I COULD, temporarily, change it to Marble, the problem is that I just can't do that with the sea-based Dilithium and Omnicytes. After all, the only options for sea resources are Fish, Whales, Pearls, and Oil. Not a lot of selection, and since I want Dilithium to use an Offshore Platform and Omnicytes to use fishing boats, that limits it even further.
So for now, yes, it'll blank out the graphic.
 
Sorry, diden't fully explain

I meant have it use the same graphic as marble but just a different color, a purple rock I guess, forgot to specify that.

Is a color change that confusing to the game?
 
Is a color change that confusing to the game?

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: Hell yes.

Very long answer: Any change to the graphic, no matter how minute, requires creation of an entirely new art asset definition. And from the looks of it, we just can't do that right now. Quite a few of the asset definition XMLs simply won't override the vanilla game's versions, no matter what you set the VFS settings to. Sounds, terrain graphics, whatever, it just won't allow you to define custom ones for many of these. (Unit 3D graphic definitions are the only things I know DO work.)

Also, the color is integral to the object's graphics files. So I'd have to extract an appropriate terrain graphic, load it in a paint program and change the color, then put it back together. Go to the Unit Graphics forum to see how people have re-skinned some units; it's not quite trivial, even with low-poly Civ4 units.

In a perfect world, Dilithium would be a bluish mineral in the ocean, Omnicytes would be a dark orange-ish fungus (sound familiar?), and Neutronium would be a dark purple metal. All of these, obviously, require altering the art definitions for resources and improvements. While I can tweak some of these, like using Marble as the baseline for Neutronium to fit better with the Quarry, that only goes so far; there is no sea-based mineral resource in the existing game, so what do I use for Dilithium? That sort of thing. So really, I need the ability to tell the game how to put improvement X on resource Y, and I just can't seem to do that.

I'm working on it, but from what I can tell it's not trivial to do any of this, and just because changing color sounds easy on paper doesn't mean it's actually simple.
 
This seems like a huge flaw with a game thats sopposed to be mod friendly...

I believe it's because they haven't allowed .dll access yet?

If so, I don't believe they'll do that soon. Their bussiness is releasing extra content with DLC's and extremely good made mods would compete with that. They just don't want that yet. Could it be that?
 
Could it be that?

"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity."

Or more specifically, there's no need to hypothesize a conspiracy to slow DLL release to sell DLC. Considering that they're still making fundamental changes to the game on a patch-by-patch basis, I can understand why they'd hold off on releasing the DLL. Not that I'm particularly happy with the delay, but it's understandable; once it's out, you're effectively locked into whatever architecture it contains, and it becomes much harder to make any sweeping changes.

As to whether this change needs the DLL, it really doesn't. All it needs is what's already in place for the unit art defines: the ability to use VFS to override the default XML files with new versions. So the devs could easily put that ability into a patch, without needing to give us the full toolkit. I'd hope that they'd give the ability to create sound defines at the same time, so that I can actually add the tech/era soundbites at the same time.

But in the meantime, I'll just continue to use placeholders that look different enough from the existing ones to be distinguishable. Obviously anyone who uses the resource icons can tell them apart easily regardless, but I'd like this to be intelligible to people who don't. For instance, Dilithium uses the uranium graphic (green crystals), but on water; obviously, anyone seeing these would know that it couldn't be uranium, so there's no confusion. That's why Omnicytes use things like the Pearl graphic on land. Unfortunately, this means that there's no possible way the resource graphic could match up with the necessary Improvement graphic.
(I've actually considered creating an aquatic Mine for use on Dilithium. But it'd look silly.)
 
I'm debating whether to release an intermediate version this week. I'm still aiming for the v.1.0 release on Monday the 6th, but I've been changing quite a few things in the interim. For instance:
> The Breakout works differently. Instead of N spore towers attempting to spawn (with those that would be placed in deep water being removed), it'll instead spawn 2*N units; if they're on land, it's a Mind Worm, if they're in deep water it's an Isle, and if it's in shallow water it places a mindworm on the nearest shore.
The upshot is that spore towers won't spawn right away, so the initial cleanup should be a bit simpler, but it should feel more like you've been overrun initially. Also, the number of Isles in the deep water might make things interesting for naval forces that don't stay close to home.
> The Head Start bonus for late-era starts has been completely overhauled. I think it works a bit better now, and it's much more user-friendly, but it's going to take some major playtesting.
> With the decreased effectiveness of nukes, both from interception and from the various NukeImmune units (the list of this is getting larger), should I make them cheaper? Or are players still finding them worthwhile despite the risks?

And I'm still trying to playtest the timing. How many turns it takes per tech, what year numbers you reach certain eras, that sort of thing. So I might release a v.0.25 on Wednesday or Thursday, for one last round of feedback before the big version.
 
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