Creating Tech Trees

[Ozymandias]

I have been "away" for a few years - Is there any newest-&-best way to create Tech Trees?

I also have a related question, most appropriate for the Graphically Impaired (me) - The game's editor uses pixels to place Tech Tree boxes. Given the game's resolution, isn't there a way (he asks after nearly 20 years) to convert pixels to cm or inches?

Moderator Action: Welcome back! Moved to main C&C forum. leif

 

[Vuldacon]

There probably is a faster method of finding the Needed X and Y positions for Techs but I simply take a Screen Shot of the Tech Screen in Game then open it in my Graphics Program (Paint Shop Pro) then use a Brush that I set as a Square then increase or decrease the size to find the distances I want between Tech Boxes for both X and Y positions.

Because I can see the Pixel size of the Brush, I can accurately place the X and Y numbers in the Editor. This is a Manual Method but I have found it easy to do.

No need to convert the pixels as The X and Y positions use pixels for the Numbers.

 

[Blue Monkey]

There's probably a tutorial buried somewhere, but I'm not aware. If not could you briefly explain how to lay out the individual techs on the Tech Screen. I know from seeing mods over the years that there's a lot of flexibility to the layout, but have no idea how the game engine deals with it.

 

[Vuldacon]

Blue Monkey... You can look in the Biq at the X and Y Numbers for original Techs in the game to see how the game uses the Numbers. The X positions are Horizontal and the Y positions are Vertical.

It is best to start by placing a Tech using the X and Y positions where you add the Numbers. Open the Tech Tree in Game and take a Screen Shot. You can use the Screen Shot to adjust the positions of the Tech Boxes by measuring the position of each Tech Box Up and Down from the edge of the Tech Screen Window.

IF the Tech Box is too far to the Right, measure how many pixels you want to move the Box to the Left. I use a Rectangle Tool to exactly surround the Box and Move it to the Left where I want it. When I move the Box on the Screen Shot, it leaves a Different Color as I move the Box. I can use a Paint Brush Square to see what size the Space is by increasing or decreasing the Paint Brush Size until it is exactly the size of the Space I move the Box. IF I move the Box Left it will be a Smaller Number on the X Position. IF I move the Box Up, it will be a Smaller Number on the Y Position. So If I moved the Tech Box Left 25 pixels and the Current X Position is 100, I would set the X Position to 75

If I move the Box Down, it will be a Larger Number on the Y Position and If I move the Box Right, it will be a Larger Number on the X Position.

All of this is the exact number of Pixels you want to move the Tech Boxes from where you start.
You can analyze or start with positions of some Tech Boxes used in the Original Game and go from there for X and Y Positions.

Example Moving a Tech Box to the Left 10 Pixels on a Screen Shot. This would mean that I need to reduce the X Number by 10.

X Y Positions in the Biq

 

[Blue Monkey]

Thanks a lot! I'll look to see how Quintillus is doing the same in his editor.

 

[Quintillus]

I would recommend Steph's Editor for this task. There's a very nice drag-and-drop tech tree builder there, and it even loads the appropriate tech tree background for the scenario. For getting the broad strokes of the tech tree positions right quickly, it's probably the best method out there. Something like what Vuldacon described could then be used for fine-tuning.

The catch is that if you are on 64-bit Windows, as you most likely are, you need a very specific release of Steph's editor. Specifically, this one he links to in this post, which as far as I know is the most recent version ever, but was never posted to the thread's first post. If you are on 32-bit Windows, the version in the first post should work. Once you have the appropriate version of the editor:

• Decompress the BIQ, using either Firaxis's editor (View --> Options --> uncheck "Compress BIC files"), or my editor (which always saves uncompressed). Steph's editor struggles with compressed BIQs.
• Open Steph's Editor, then the Scenario Editor. Open your BIQ.
• Click on TECH - Civilization Advances on the left.
• There's a "Builde" button to the right of the X/Y coordinates, at the center-top. Click this to open the Tech Tree Builder.
• Select an Era, and a Civ to see its view of the techs. Optionally select Graphic Mode instead of Fast Mode at the bottom of the side panel.
• You can now drag and drop the tech entries!

All and all a really nice tool, and it solves what is arguably the hardest part of the problem. You'll probably still want to draw some arrows between techs, but you no longer have to manually calculate all the X/Y coordinates, estimating how many icons there are per tech, and so on. Just line them up about right, fine-tune the alignment so they tops and left sides line up properly, draw the background, and it's ready to go. It even shows the cost of the techs on the tech tree, so you can visually check if you have a good tech cost progression.

I have not attempted to replicate this in my editor, as there's little to improve on beyond what Steph already has.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

Here's what Steph's editor looks like with the Build screen that Quint's talking about. It's a great way to quickly and easily map out your tech tree, kinda like laying out 3x5 cards on a table. Then you can go back and readjust everything precisely Vuldacon-style. And of course you can use the x and y coordinates to align everything vertically and horizontally when needed. To use Vuldacon's example above, if you make everything in the first row have x = 82, then they'll all line up vertically. Although with the original Firaxis tech boxes, the different size boxes don't perfectly line up with one another, but it's close enough not to be too noticeable.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Thanks to both of you for those posts! They're certain to be helpful for a lot of people.

I have not attempted to replicate this in my editor, as there's little to improve on beyond what Steph already has.

Except for the part about windows-less oddballs like me.

OTOH, between pixel level attention to detail in graphics, cartography, programming, & just plain love of math, once I get going figuring out coords will just be part of the flow. I have a feeling we'll be overhauling the UI. Making tech boxes and arrows to match the background screen will be fun.

 

[WildWeazel]

@Blue Monkey I can't speak for Mac, but Steph's editor seems to work out of the box for me in Wine.

 

[Takeo]

[*]Select an Era, and a Civ to see its view of the techs. Optionally select Graphic Mode instead of Fast Mode at the bottom of the side panel.

I realize this is a little outside the topic of this thread but-

Beyond creating a tech tree, Steph's editor can also be used to double-check unit availability for every civ. You just click on the civ tab at the upper left and cycle thru all the available civs. Watch the techs while doing this and if you see a unit disappear and/or a tech box change its size, then that particular civ does not have access to that particular unit. You obviously have to be in graphic mode to do this.

 

[Quintillus]

In the spirit of noting the best way to do each task (and not seeing a way for it to not sound like self-promoting), as of last week my editor has a feature to check which units are available per civ as well, which I believe is more convenient than what @Takeo described. It has a "Set Available Units" button on its CIV tab, which shows all available units on the left, and all unavailable units on the right.

I believe both tools, however, do not show transitively available units, that is, those available only through a building. An example would be the Crusader in a standard Conquests game. In theory, these could vary in availability by civ, too, such as if the building that generated them required a tech which was only available to certain civs, and was non-tradeable.

 

[Ozymandias]

A heart-felt thanks to one-and-all!