Culture: Wonder discussions.

[MOTH]

The citizens spoke and wish for us to follow a limited wonder policy. This means that we will build wonders either for culture in border regions or for the specific advantages the wonders provide.

The following wonders are available or could be available in the next 30 turns:

Heroic Epic - 200 sheilds/4 cpt - the culture ministry believes that this wonder should be used to fight culture wars.

Military Academy - 400 sheilds/1 cpt - not very usefull for fighting culture. Specific benefit is to build Armies. The culture ministry believes that this should be build in a high production city and that some armies build can be disbanded in the boonies to help rush big improvements like Colluseums.

Battlefield Medicine - 500 sheilds/1cpt - specific benefit is that our units can heal while in enemy territory. The culture ministry does not believe this is a significant benefit.

Intelligence Agency - 400 sheilds/1cpt - benefit is that we can conduct Espionage Missions- The Culture ministry is undecided on this one.

Iron Works - 300 shields/2cpt - usefull in boosting production. Must be built where conditions allow (if any)

Great Wonders:
Universal Suffrage - 800 sh/4 cpt - the culture ministry believes that this wonder should be used to fight culture wars.

Theory of Evolution - 600 sh/3 cpt - the culture ministry believes that this wonder should be used to fight culture wars. We've got a big tech lead already.

Hoover Dam - 800 sh/2 cpt - the culture ministry believes that this wonder should be built to provide clean energy for our continent.

Shakespeare's Theatre - 400 sh/8 cpt - the culture ministry believes that this wonder should be used to fight culture wars.

Now the bad news:
In the last 4 turns Babylon has captured 2 tiles from us in the neighborhood of Regent Town. The bad news is that Regent Town has built every culture generating building and we are still falling behind. The good news is that we cannot behind by much as we had the lead 4 turns ago. Ellippi has not yet passed 1000 culture and with some observation during the next TC we should be able to determine when they cross this threshhold.

The Culture Ministry recommends that we build the Heroic Epic wonder in Regent Town to combat this.

 

[Nobody]

The Culture Ministry recommends that we build the Heroic Epic wonder in Regent Town to combat this.

Do we have a victorius army?

 

[Provolution]

Yes we did, since I managed to extend the war you voted against.
Thanks to my strongarming in the end, we got a victorious army.

 

[MOTH]

The culture ministry would like to solicit suggested locations for Heroic Epic, Military Academy, and a pre-build for Universal Suffrage. These wonders are available now or should be within 16 turns based on the current science plan.

Culture reccomendations are:

Heroic Epic: Regent Town due to culture war - 14 turns probably.

Military Academy: Shorin-ryu due to high shields per turn - 16 or 17 turns

Universal Suffrage (pre-build): Osgiliath due to culture war and only fringe city with enough shields per turn to finish in a reasonable time. 14 turns on palace pre-build and 57 turns total time. We would loose this if the Wonder Cascade happens from Magellan's and even then we could loose it depending on when foreign cities start on US and how many spt they have. High spt (core) cities suggested as alternatives will need to win an override based on the 'limited wonders' policy.

I will accept suggestions until Saturday evening and will then open polls before Monday's chat.

 

[TimBentley]

Magellan's should be finished before anyone researches industrialization. Osgiliath has had a cultural lead on Mpondo since before Mpondo had built any culture. Regardless, I believe you are correct that the only other cities that could build it fast enough would be core cities. Building a factory in Osgiliath first would complete Universal Suffrage faster, so that would be the way I would assign the build queue if the people decide they want Universal Suffrage there.

 

[Cyc]

As Zojoji has already attained Camelot status, we would like to see other Japanatica cities join us on that DG5 list. Therefore, we do not mind seeing other cities build the Wonders. But we would be happy to volunteer to build any, should you need us to do so. Keep us on the list as a backup.

 

[classical_hero]

I could not agree with your recommendations, Minister MOTH.

 

[blackheart]

As Zojoji has already attained Camelot status, we would like to see other Japanatica cities join us on that DG5 list. Therefore, we do not mind seeing other cities build the Wonders. But we would be happy to volunteer to build any, should you need us to do so. Keep us on the list as a backup.

I'd like to offer any of Zarnia's cities up for wonder production.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

I'd like to possibly see Shakespeares in Zojoji for obvious reasons

SaaM

 

[invy]

I mostly agree with everything said above except few things:

''Battlefield Medicine - 500 sheilds/1cpt - specific benefit is that our units can heal while in enemy territory. The culture ministry does not believe this is a significant benefit.'' BM is very important from non-cultural view and should be built asap.

Osgiliath will take to long to build Universal Suffrage (57 turns!!!). We could built Factory, Hospital and Hydro Plant in that time and few units, not to mention that Osgiliath would be much more advanced city than in case we start US. Imagine Osg after 57 turns, stuck on 15-20 shields and 12pop while all other cities have Factories and Hospitals.... Don't build US in Osgiliath!

 

[Cyc]

I'd like to possibly see Shakespeares in Zojoji for obvious reasons

SaaM

YES! Shakespeare lives in Zojoji! I would like this also. I would love to see some Hamlet in our humble little hamlet.

 

[MOTH]

Well, I'm looking for other suggestions for the 3 wonders above (HE, MA, and US). If you don't want US is Osgiliath then you will need to convince the 'limited wonders' crowd to override. But first you need to suggest an alternate city so I can poll it.

 

[Cyc]

Well, after looking at the save, my opinion is that Corrino or En'Gha should build the Universal Suffrage. Once that is decided, the other should build the Heroic Epic. Shorin-Ryu should build the Military Academy, as it has strong shiled potential, is an inland city, and needs a little Culture too. The reason I suggest these cities is to keep them closer to Camelot status. It appears Odawar will attain Camelot status soon, without much help. That's why we should concentrate on these other cities.

 

[MOTH]

I will start polls on these builds in the morning. Preliminary results will be used for this turnchat and final results for the turn chat afterwards.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

I'm fine with Universal Sufferage or Heroic Epic. They don't add *that* much to the game. However, I voted no for Military Academy. It's a much more interesting game when wars actually take strategy - armies just ruin it, at least for a democracy game. Let's make the game a bit more challenging - vote no for MA.

 

[MOTH]

Results of the polling is that we will be building Heroic Epic and Military Academy and will not be building Universal Suffrage.

The next 2 wonders likely to be available are Battlefield Medicine and Theory of Evolution.

Due to the 'Limited Wonder' policy, the builds on these will be restricted unless significant discussion leads convinces me otherwise. The Culture Ministry believes that Battlefield Medicine does not provide a significant benefit as we do not intend to stay at war long in the future. We also believe that Theory of Evolution should be used in Culture war circumstances and should therefore be built in a border region. Other suggested locations for either of these could be subject to needing a override to pass.

Please discuss the merit of these wonders and possible build locations. Polling on these wonders will not begin before the next turn chat and may be delayed further depending on when the required techs may be available. A request is being entered in the Science Ministry thread for some analysis on when the techs may be available.

 

[blackheart]

Again, Zarnia offers open arms to facilitate building wonders suggested by the Culture Ministry.

 

[Ashburnham]

Due to the 'Limited Wonder' policy, the builds on these will be restricted unless significant discussion leads convinces me otherwise. The Culture Ministry believes that Battlefield Medicine does not provide a significant benefit as we do not intend to stay at war long in the future. We also believe that Theory of Evolution should be used in Culture war circumstances and should therefore be built in a border region. Other suggested locations for either of these could be subject to needing a override to pass.

I disagree with your appraisal of the Theory of Evolution, Minister. ToE has significant benefits far beyond its paltry 3cpt (aka. a library). The scientific benefits suggest that we should have it built as soon as we can (34 Turns from now, according to Strider). However, our border towns are woefully unprepared to crank out the 600 shields necessary for ToE in the near future. Our highest producing border town is Regent Town, which could amass 600 shields in 43 Turns. The second highest producer after that, Duckburg, is on the Zulu border--a border that we have no reason to be concerned about. After that, we get into cities that have single-digit production, not the best choices for Wonder production.

I think our best choice would also be the simplest. To use the palace pre-build in Osgiliath for ToE. In 34 turns, Osgiliath will easily have amassed enough shields for the ToE, and we can have our two techs immediately.

 

[MOTH]

I will start polling on ToE, Hoover's Dam, and Battlefield Medicine locations in 48 hours. The only suggested location so far is Osgiliath for ToE. I would advocate that Osgiliath build a Factory and follow that with a Universal Suffrage pre-build for for ToE.

My suggestion for Battlefield Medicine is that we don't build it.

My suggestion for Hoover's Dam is that it be built in Fanatikku or En'Gha. Palace pre-build would be started after a factory is built.

I would like more citizen input before I start the polling. Please post your suggestions and arguments for or against any suggestions.

 

[blackheart]

Given our limited wonders policy, Hoover's Dam would give us too much of an advantage, so would ToE. Battlefield Medicine, however, is a small wonder and should be built.