Da Plane

zaphod2016

Warlord
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
102
Howdy.

I am new to Civ 3, having mastered good ole' Civ 1. I am having one hell of a time adjusting to this game.

A specific problem: I have developed all techs needed for the space ship, but I still can't build any planes. I have airports in a few cities already, but I am not seeing any ability to build planes or bombers.

What gives? Is this a glitch, or am I missing something?
 
Howdy.

I am new to Civ 3, having mastered good ole' Civ 1. I am having one hell of a time adjusting to this game.

A specific problem: I have developed all techs needed for the space ship, but I still can't build any planes. I have airports in a few cities already, but I am not seeing any ability to build planes or bombers.

What gives? Is this a glitch, or am I missing something?

Do you have the resources?
 
You need oil to build planes. Do you have any? Is it hooked up?
 
A-HA! That is probably the problem. I have no oil in my territory.

Does this mean I have to wait until other civs develop it, and then trade?
 
A-HA! That is probably the problem. I have no oil in my territory.

Does this mean I have to wait until other civs develop it, and then trade?

Not necessarily, although that's one way to get it.

You could also go to war and just TAKE it...you'll be able to see it on the map, even if they can't. Oil shows up when you learn Refining, and if none of the AI have that tech, they can't see it, but you can.

I don't believe you actually need oil to build SS parts, so if you already have all the techs, just can go ahead and build the parts. I'd be a bit cautious though. The AI always seems to know when you are getting close to a win, and are likely to attack you before you finish and launch. I believe you need oil for Infantry and Tanks, so it might be hard to just defend without them or planes.

At what difficulty level are you playing? What is your best attacker/defender? What type of units do the AI have? Can you upload a save file (not an autosave, but a manual save which is much smaller and easier to upload) so we could have a look and advise? Which version of Civ3 are you playing...vanilla, PTW or Conquests?
 
I am brand new to civ3- this is literally my first game, on easy mode. I would be happy to upload it, but I've made a real mess of things. I found some uranium, and, well, you can guess where it went from there. All I have are auto-saves, and none go back before I started an unprovoked nuclear war and had the world declare war on me.

Quick side note: I am a civ1 fanatic, so there is a lot I like, and a lot I still don't understand about this game. The diplomacy/trade system takes some getting used to.

The oil issue makes sense because I am also unable to build tanks. Is there any terrain more likely to produce oil in the future? If I give a friendly civ the refining tech, are they likely to trade oil with me at favorable terms?

Also, regarding trade: how do I determine the value of luxuries? The Iroquois offer me 19 gpt for my dyes, but the English only offer a worthless world map. Am I supposed to haggle with each civ to find the best deal? Is this all trial-and-error, or has someone created a good tutorial out there?

Thanks for the help. I can tell this game is awesome, I just wish I knew how to play it. :lol:
 
Quick side note: I am a civ1 fanatic, so there is a lot I like, and a lot I still don't understand about this game. The diplomacy/trade system takes some getting used to.

Diplomacy and trading isn't interesting below regent level, the AI improves itself so slowly at those levels, they often simply don't have anything to trade.

Chieftain is a level meant to learn "what happens if I push this button?" Once you figured that part out, I advice to move to regent level.

The oil issue makes sense because I am also unable to build tanks. Is there any terrain more likely to produce oil in the future? If I give a friendly civ the refining tech, are they likely to trade oil with me at favorable terms?

"favorable" is a relative, learn to think in terms of "return of investment"
Oil allows you to build certain units, but what are you planning to do with those units? If you need them to quickly conquer the world and win by domination/conquest, then a relatively high price may still be favorable compared to losing the game.
But from what I read in your posts, you don't seem to need them, so then why even put any effort in getting oil?

I understand this is just your introduction game where you are testing things out, but thats the kind of thinking that I use to determine if a trade is favorable.

Also, regarding trade: how do I determine the value of luxuries? The Iroquois offer me 19 gpt for my dyes, but the English only offer a worthless world map. Am I supposed to haggle with each civ to find the best deal? Is this all trial-and-error, or has someone created a good tutorial out there?

It depends on how much happiness effect the lux gives you.

If you have 10 cities, and no marketplaces, then a single lux resource gives exactly 10 happiness (1 in each city) if an other civ has 5 cities, then you will need to trade 2 lux in return for 1 of his.
But if a 3th civ has 20 cities, then you can trade 1 of your lux for 2 of this 3th civ's lux.
Instead of trading lux for lux you can also combine it with gold per turn. lump sum, a tech, whatever.

If some of your cities have marketplaces things get a but more complex.
Because a marketplace increases the happiness output of a lux in that one city.
For example: If you have 6 lux already, then a 7th lux will add 4 happiness in the city with a marketplace (but still 1 in the cities without.)
 
Also, regarding trade: how do I determine the value of luxuries? The Iroquois offer me 19 gpt for my dyes, but the English only offer a worthless world map. Am I supposed to haggle with each civ to find the best deal? Is this all trial-and-error, or has someone created a good tutorial out there?

Further to MAS's note about how the AI calculates the prices of things, yes you can and should (to the limit of your patience) haggle with them. I don't remember if it was the same in Civ1&2, but in Civ3, when you ask the AI to quote you a price (both for buying and selling) their offer is non-optimal. For example, when doing that dyes deal, maybe you can ask for 20gpt and they still say yes. Try 22gpt; yes. 24gpt; no. Okay then, 23gpt; yes. 23gpt + 10g; yes. 23gpt +15g; no. 23gpt + 12g; yes. etc etc etc. Moronic game design, and I don't think they even fixed it in Civ4, although trading did get dumbed down a fair bit, to protect the poor little AI. :voilins:
 
Do these market prices change with each game? Do they depend on difficulty level? When my advisor in the top-right corner says; "they will probably accept this deal" is that a clue, or should I keep haggling?

I've been playing lots of short, easy-mode games to get the feel for it, and I LOVE THIS GAME. Indian War Elephants, or the U.S. Marines- there is so much here I feel somewhat overwhelmed- and I'm not even playing the expansion packs yet!

Thanks again for the help.
 
As prices for luxes vary according to how many happy faces you'll get for a lux, they will necessarily change with each game because your empire will be different in each game. There is some variation in tech prices, and I think it's related to map size. There may be other factors. I'm not sure. When your advisor says that they "will probably accept the deal," they will accept the deal, but you may want to keep haggling to get the best deal for yourself.
 
If you have the conquest expansion, I'd say, play that! There is no real need to play vanilla if you don't have to.


The price of tech depend on a standard value for that specific tech. (can still be changed in the editor) modified by map size, difficulty level, and how many other AI that you know, also know the tech.

Map size and difficulty are set at game creation. The last factor can change throughout the game.
The more players, that you have contact with, know tech X, the less gold you have to pay to buy text X from one of them, but also, the less beakers you have to collect to research it yourself. Your diplomatic status (war, peace, etc) with the other civ doesn't matter for this.

This rule also counts for the other players. So if you know 3 civ, and one of those only has contact with you but not the other two, then you can sell your tech to that one at monopoly price, even if the other two also know the tech.
If you wait a turn, and that one civ makes contact with the other two in the inter-turn, then you can only sell it to him at 4th price, assuming you are lucky enough one of the other two didn't trade it to him.

It can be helpful to block AI from making contact with each other for as long as possible in the ancient age, as long as it doesn't slow you down in other area's.


The value of lux resources is only effected by the mechanism I mentioned before.
The value of strategic resources is unknown to me, (I usually just conquer what I need) but I think it is also effected by how many cities you have connected to your trade network, because it was relatively cheap to me when I was playing a 5CC* once. (only anecdotal, could be wrong here)

Realize that AI to AI trading is cheaper for the AI at higher difficulty levels. Where you pay 100 gold to the AI, the AI pays only 60 gold at Deity level to an other AI. Human and AI are "equal" in this regard at regent difficulty, and at Chieftain, the AI pays twice what the human pays.



( *5CC: A variant where you challenge yourself by restricting yourself with only 5 cities, and no more. Especially hard to do on larger map sizes)
 
I may be wrong but I believe that the AI-AI trade level is the only thing, at Regent, that is not even - I think it's set at 80 or 90. I don't think there's a level where it's set at an even 100; Warlord is 120, Chieftan is a ridiculous 200. At Sid it may even be as low as 30.... All off the top of my head, of course!!
 
So far as getting a trade for oil at a good price, you can get it cheaply if you don't have the techs to build anything that NEEDS oil. Once you learn a tech that allows you to build units which require oil, the price for trading will become more expensive. In your case, since you could build Tanks and Planes, the price would be high.
 
Okay back home so I check with the editor...
The AI-AI trade value starts at 110 for Chieftan (if they'll give a human 100 gold, they'll give another AI 110) and advances to 170 for Sid. Regent is 130. Which means that even at the easiest level, AIs will give each other slightly better deals than they'll give a human player!
 
Okay back home so I check with the editor...
The AI-AI trade value starts at 110 for Chieftan (if they'll give a human 100 gold, they'll give another AI 110) and advances to 170 for Sid. Regent is 130. Which means that even at the easiest level, AIs will give each other slightly better deals than they'll give a human player!

They're all against us! :faint: :hide:

But consider their overall limitiations as programs that can only react to situations and can't plan ahead, they need all the help they can get.
 
OK I don't understand this AI to AI trade rate. I take it that it is designed to encourage the computer to trade amongst itself. Does it mean that the AI pays less gold than a human for the same resource or technology etc?

It sounds as if what eldar is saying would suggest that at high levels the AI have to pay more when trading between themselves, which would make it a lot easier for the poorer human player to keep up.

Can I have some clarification as to how this rule works please?:)
 
The number state is a percentage of acceptance, with the human being 100% then the AI on regent would prefer to trade with each other 30% more than the human. It sounds weird but basically they would prefer to trade with each other a little bit more per level until at the highest level it's almost twice as likely.

Maybe I'm not explaining it too well, but the AI treat the human differently than each other.
 
I understood it was more like:
If one AI offers another AI 100 gold for something, then the other AI actually sees an offer of x, where x is the AI-AI trade rate.

Say at Regent, for example, Alex offers Xerxes 100 gold for Iron Working, then Xerxes actually "sees" an offer of 130 gold. So he's more inclined to go for it.
 
I heard somewhere that the AI-AI trade rate only influences the minimum price they'll take. So if Catherine wants 2000 gold for something, she'll take less than that (depending on the level) from another AI, but will take the full 2K if they have it.
 
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