Define "Chop Rush"

[wc3promet]

I'm uncertain of the correct definition, would someone care to enlighten me?

From what I know, I'm supposed to get Bronze Working and then order my workers to clear forest tiles. However, it appears that in order to clear it, I need to construct something over the tile.

 

[slothman]

I believe it is where you chop many trees to build a building, or settler, quickly.
You can start to build a library and chop some trees at the same time.
Just before the chop finishes you switch to the settler.
Then back again after the settler gains the hammers.
That way you don't lose food but still get a settler.
I'm not sure where it says you have to put something on the tile so if it is true then I don't know.

 

[alco75]

The Chop is a legitimate early strategy and has nothing to do with the exploit that is swapping production to Settler/Worker to bypass the growth restriction.

 

[alco75]

From what I know, I'm supposed to get Bronze Working and then order my workers to clear forest tiles. However, it appears that in order to clear it, I need to construct something over the tile.

Not necessarily, you can just hit the axe icon in order to perform a Forest Chop only. However as you point out, many improvements that can be build on Forest tiles will first remove the Forest - you also get the hammers in this case.

 

[jeremiahrounds]

edit: oops chopped up this post

 

[Honor]

The Chop is a legitimate early strategy and has nothing to do with the exploit that is swapping production to Settler/Worker to bypass the growth restriction.

I do not think that is an exploit, though. Visualise a city that is spending its regular production (hammers) on a building and using only the hammers produced by chopping the forests outside the city for a settler. I think it is pretty legitimate. There is no other way that a city can use ONLY chopped wood for a settler in civ4. If you are allowed to build settlers with chopped wood (as well as food+hammers produced in the city), why would choosing to build a settler with ONLY chopped wood be a problem? Yes, it allows the city grow at the same time, but a city has a right to choose what it can produce every turn. So why can an ancient city not concentrate on building a barracks for 3 turns and decide to use the chopped wood on the settler on the 4th turn and resume its barracks production on the 5th turn?

 

[Villein]

Sounds feasible to me, makes semse really when put like that !

 

[thordk]

However as you point out, many improvements that can be build on Forest tiles will first remove the Forest - you also get the hammers in this case.

never paid attention to this, but do you get the hammers after 3 rounds (standard rounds to chop a forrest) or after the improvement is ready?
i usually chop first, even if i want to build an improvement on this tile.

 

[walkerjks]

never paid attention to this, but do you get the hammers after 3 rounds (standard rounds to chop a forrest) or after the improvement is ready?
i usually chop first, even if i want to build an improvement on this tile.

If you directly replace a forest with another improvement (i.e. build a cottage on a forest tile), you get the hammers after the cottage is built (7 turns?). However, if you cut down the forest first (3 turns), you get the hammers after 3 turns and then you can still build the cottage in 4 more turns.

So if you are truly "rushing" something, chop the forest first and then build the improvement (or move on to the next forest and come back to this tile later).

If you aren't really rushing the building, doing the direct forest-to-improvement replacement on a tile that your city is actively working is probably better as you get the +1 shield from the forest for a few turns longer.

 

[Astax]

Chop Rush is when I send 3 cover phalanxes and 3 cover Axemen to your capital before 1600BC. Followed by the same every 10 turns toll you die

All you other guys dont tell people how to grow while building settlers, if they cant figure it out, they dont deserve to frikin know! Moderator Action: Trolling - warned.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[alco75]

All you other guys dont tell people how to grow while building settlers, if they cant figure it out, they dont deserve to frikin know!

'frikin' grow up. Moderator Action: Report it - don't feed it. Warned for flaming.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[rabottens]

If you have an early aggressive unit you could chop you a nice little attack army and greet your nearby neighbors while they still have fairly weak defenses.

 

[butlerj1982]

I dont post much but i know Astax isnt the brightest bulb. A good converation going about forests, dont waste your time on him. Moderator Action: Trolling & flaming - warned.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

My favorite strategy is to start with mysticism, grab polytheism and found hinduism, broze working (indians start with mining so i can grab bronze now too), priesthood, then research pottery, making sure i dont get it before i build the oracle, which im chopping out. i can usually time it so i get pottery the turn before, then grab metal casting with the oracle, and chop out a forge in my capital city. by now the forests are pretty much gone, but ive got a big advantage; well positioned for either a cultural run (with early wonder and religion) or a military one (which extra production and early copper). its flexible.

-john

 

[Cropper]

I dont post much but i know Astax isnt the brightest bulb. A good converation going about forests, dont waste your time on him. My favorite strategy is to start with mysticism, grab polytheism and found hinduism, broze working (indians start with mining so i can grab bronze now too), priesthood, then research pottery, making sure i dont get it before i build the oracle, which im chopping out. i can usually time it so i get pottery the turn before, then grab metal casting with the oracle, and chop out a forge in my capital city. by now the forests are pretty much gone, but ive got a big advantage; well positioned for either a cultural run (with early wonder and religion) or a military one (which extra production and early copper). its flexible.

-john

Great strategy and almost the same as mine actually. However I don't use the forests to build Forge. I use them to pump out a couple of warriors (for exploration), a settler, and another worker. Then I go for Stonehenge and Oracle. Eveyrhting else you said right up to bronze working I do the same as you. After bronze working, I grab wheel and agriculture, since I need to get my worker connecting the two cities together and chopping even more wood.

 

[butlerj1982]

Yeah, i try to get a second city before i chop out the oracle; usually i have time to build a worker, warrior, expand to 2 pop (depends on terrain) build a settler, then chop out the oracle. after that ill build a worker while im researching the wheel. i usually play as indians so i have a bit of an advantage in that i can wait a while before getting my 2nd worker, as my first can cover some nice ground (Especially roading hinduism out to my second city).

Stonehenge is a great wonder because it can add to your GPP and put an obelisk in both cities. If the capital is forest-heavy, its a great play b/c it costs 2-3 forests max to pump it out in not very many turns. The quicker you get that first religious leader and get the Kashi Viswanath, the earlier you can expand.

I usually wait to get my third city unitl ive built the kashi... when do youe xpand to three? i find that if i dont have income from hinduism, ill have to drop my tech rate with three cities. The only exception tot his is if i have copper and an opponent delays archery (which the japanesse (i play rnadom personalities) actually did once... that forge got those axemen out nice). then ill take the science hit to take a capital.

-john

 

[Cropper]

Yeah, i try to get a second city before i chop out the oracle; usually i have time to build a worker, warrior, expand to 2 pop (depends on terrain) build a settler, then chop out the oracle. after that ill build a worker while im researching the wheel. i usually play as indians so i have a bit of an advantage in that i can wait a while before getting my 2nd worker, as my first can cover some nice ground (Especially roading hinduism out to my second city).

Stonehenge is a great wonder because it can add to your GPP and put an obelisk in both cities. If the capital is forest-heavy, its a great play b/c it costs 2-3 forests max to pump it out in not very many turns. The quicker you get that first religious leader and get the Kashi Viswanath, the earlier you can expand.

I usually wait to get my third city unitl ive built the kashi... when do youe xpand to three? i find that if i dont have income from hinduism, ill have to drop my tech rate with three cities. The only exception tot his is if i have copper and an opponent delays archery (which the japanesse (i play rnadom personalities) actually did once... that forge got those axemen out nice). then ill take the science hit to take a capital.

-john

It's not the same everytime, but I usually build the following units in each new city I build : Warrior, Worker, Settler. I don't make any improvements to the cities until I've chopped every stick of wood around that city with the worker, usually to make early wonders as well as the three units I specified above. At around 5-6 cities I have to change over to defense a bit to protect from barbs (I usually have archer by then) and because the economy can't keep up with further expansion this quickly. At that point I pop out a few extra workers and start building improvements to worked tiles, and road's to every city if it's not already done. By this point I have 2-3 early wonders, lots of workers, defense with archers, and am still running at 100% science.

 

[butlerj1982]

What time frame is this and what difficulty level? Thats pretty sweet, 5-6 cities just discovering archery and 100% science... i usually decide peace or military pretty early depending on game settings and where i end up... but 5-6 cities that early with 100% sci. ? how'ya doin that?

 

[Cropper]

What time frame is this and what difficulty level? Thats pretty sweet, 5-6 cities just discovering archery and 100% science... i usually decide peace or military pretty early depending on game settings and where i end up... but 5-6 cities that early with 100% sci. ? how'ya doin that?

I don't really pay much attention to the time to tell you the truth, but I can check tonight and post back later. I play on Noble difficulty (although I am going to move up one difficultly level the next time I play). In the game I am currently playing, it is 1750AD and I have never dropped my Science below 100% the entire game.

General order of operations is (as Gandhi) :

build first city
explore with warrior
build worker
chop forests with worker
build warrior, warrior, worker, settler, worker (using chops)
switch to stonehenge in first city and build it (using chops)
settle second city
second worker from first city comes over and chops second cities woods.
build worker, settler
switch to oracle in second city and build it (using chops)
build third city
build worker, settler
in first city, after buuilding stonehenge, i usually switch to a couple of warriors to send out to fortify existing cities.
etc.etc.etc. The worker I build in each city, immediately chops all the wood near the city until its all gone so that each city gets huge boosts at the beginning.

Something like that, I don't have an exact method every time, but I use a similar strategy.

 

[ainwood]

Moderator Action: Cease the flaming - garbage removed.

Astax, alco75, george_manet, cropper, butlerj1982 warned.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[anton_z1]

I don't really pay much attention to the time to tell you the truth, but I can check tonight and post back later. I play on Noble difficulty (although I am going to move up one difficultly level the next time I play). In the game I am currently playing, it is 1750AD and I have never dropped my Science below 100% the entire game.

General order of operations is (as Gandhi) :

build first city
explore with warrior
build worker
chop forests with worker
build warrior, warrior, worker, settler, worker (using chops)
switch to stonehenge in first city and build it (using chops)
settle second city
second worker from first city comes over and chops second cities woods.
build worker, settler
switch to oracle in second city and build it (using chops)
build third city
build worker, settler
in first city, after buuilding stonehenge, i usually switch to a couple of warriors to send out to fortify existing cities.
etc.etc.etc. The worker I build in each city, immediately chops all the wood near the city until its all gone so that each city gets huge boosts at the beginning.

Something like that, I don't have an exact method every time, but I use a similar strategy.

I love your strat. But try to chop 3 workers, then use them to start a chopping rampage . I chop settler, warrior, then go to my secon city, chop stonhedge, settler, warrior, then run to my third city adn CHOP CHOP CHOP . I only stop when i can no more chop settlers .