Delaying all Musicians until the Extreme Late Game

[Stalker0]

I was curious if anyone has tried this idea for CV.

Since tourism doesn't really snowball, you don't normally mind giving up some tourism early for a much bigger payoff later to secure your CV.

With that in mind, has anyone tried foregoing all musicians until the very very late game, and then suddenly turning them on to spam GM very quickly....at a time when your tourism is much higher and therefore your getting strong bang out of your concert tours.

With this option, I would probably just put the first two into great works that go into my capital, due to the major boost the capital normal gives to great works. Than all the rest would go into concerts.

The idea seems interesting but I was curious if anyone has looked strongly at it and had success with it.

 

[crdvis16]

I was curious if anyone has tried this idea for CV.

Since tourism doesn't really snowball, you don't normally mind giving up some tourism early for a much bigger payoff later to secure your CV.

With that in mind, has anyone tried foregoing all musicians until the very very late game, and then suddenly turning them on to spam GM very quickly....at a time when your tourism is much higher and therefore your getting strong bang out of your concert tours.

With this option, I would probably just put the first two into great works that go into my capital, due to the major boost the capital normal gives to great works. Than all the rest would go into concerts.

The idea seems interesting but I was curious if anyone has looked strongly at it and had success with it.

My guess is that it's not worth it. What you give up:

-strong culture yields from musician specialists
-tourism for a portion of the game from early great works (yes tourism is weak early but you still lose some)
-theming bonuses
-stronger music bombs (I can't remember how the mechanic works now but the more music great works the stronger the music bomb, just like how all other GP bulbs work I assume)

What you gain:
-more music bombs when your tourism is its highest

I imagine you'd have to churn out a LOT more musicians at the end to make it worth it.

You could play a game and make a save right when you unlock musician guilds. Play it out working music slots like normal and faith buying musicians asap and then go back and play it out in a similar way but saving musicians till the end. See if one method has a significant edge.

 

[Stalker0]

My quick thoughts:

-strong culture yields from musician specialists
--Agreed, this is a drawback.

-tourism for a portion of the game from early great works (yes tourism is weak early but you still lose some)
--Honestly late game tourism is so much stronger than early tourism...1 turn of late game tourism equals the vast majority of your entire early game supply. Now even though that's true with science and culture as well, there snowball effect means that early yields are much stronger than late yields. Early game tourism, to put it blunt, is basically a nonexistent factor when it comes to CV.

-theming bonuses
--You do lose some culture here. As far as tourism goes, I actually find that the capital multipliers for great works are so strong that I often get equal or more tourism putting a great work in the capital than I would to theme it in another city.

I do think its probably worth getting 2 early great works of music early just to have them for later bombs, and then to theme the capitals broadcast tower. Past that point though I think the bombs would be stronger, but that's the million dollar question.

-stronger music bombs (I can't remember how the mechanic works now but the more music great works the stronger the music bomb, just like how all other GP bulbs work I assume)

--I believe its 12 turns of your current average tourism, +1 turn per great work of music. So at best, a great work increases your tourism bomb strength by 8% (1/12). Considering that waiting till around telecommunications, your tourism will often increase by over 100-150%...the theory is that forgoing a few great works to get even 1-2 more bombs in the late game would seem to generate much more tourism overall. That's the theory at least!

I am trying a game as Brazil right now where I want to try it out, so we will see how it goes.

 

[chicorbeef]

I mean, I usually faith purchase as many Musicians as I can at the end anyway.

Don't forget, that the Musician's tourism output is based off the per turn tourism output of your empire, and the historical event's tourism is based off both your Culture/Tourism. Also, there are theming bonuses...I like picking Industry for CV, so I like to make 4 GW's of Music (to theme Broadway and my Capital's Broadcast Tower...I get one free Musician with Broadway) and then use the rest for Bombs.

There's a good chance you won't really get more Musicians like this by delaying than you would naturally tbh (how are you going to get 2 musicians in the span of like 15-20 turns at the end?), so the real question is whether an exta Modern or Atomic Musician bomb, just before end game, is worth the slightly weaker endgame bombs.

 

[Stalker0]

(how are you going to get 2 musicians in the span of like 15-20 turns at the end?), so the real question is whether an exta Modern or Atomic Musician bomb, just before end game, is worth the slightly weaker endgame bombs.

So looking at the math, as soon as you build the guilds and activate the musicians (which is turn 0 for this purpose), assuming your usual Tradition Capital + Artistry + Freedom's 33% more GP + Opera House.

You'll generate the 1st GM in turn 5 (from capital), the 2nd GM on turn 17 (Capital), and then the 3rd GM on Turn 31 (satellite city), with the 4th on Turn 43 (other satellite, technically the capital finishes on the same turn but the other satelite has just a few more GM points, so I assume it gets to build it)

So assuming you time your faith buy properly, you could effectively have 5 GMs (2 from capital + 3 bought) 17 turns after you activated "the plan". If you have a crapton of faith you could have 6 GMs by turn 20 with another faith buy, but at that point GPs start becoming quite quite expensive.


So seeing that, I'm actually thinking the more optimal path is to go GMs early and bulb them....but as your getting closer to telecommunications, cut off your GM production in your 3 guild cities just as they getting close to finishing their next GM (you do have to be careful with the base points from the guild itself, or else you could get the GM too early). The goal being to generate the next 2 GMs very soon after telecommunication combined with the faith buying. Its tricky, I think 2 is possible, arranging all 3 cities to this would probably be very difficult (I'll leave that for crazy deity players who like to min/max like that But in theory, this would still give you the 5 GM rush after telecommunication, but now backed by more works of music. If 5 bombs is the magic number, this is likely the most efficient play. If you need a few more, I think forgoing all GMs until telecommunication will get you those extra bombs more quickly.