Denmark - Completely useless or...?
- Thread starter Securion
- Start date
adwcta
King
DerCivMeister
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2013
- Messages
- 56
Yeah, as much as it hurts to call Denmark the worst civ in the game, I mean, who else could possibly contend for that rank? Yes, Germany and Japan are not good and need to be fixed, but at least the Germans can spam landsknechts for an all out blitzkrieg that won't bankrupt you, and Japan can create hard to kill samurai zombie armies. Maybe if every map was an icy archipelago they might be decent, but I agree that's way too situational, and they still wouldn't even be that good. If the Inca get a mountainous map, they'll be unstoppable, and if Morocco gets a desert start, they'll be amazing, but Denmark is just lackluster all the time it seems. Hopefully after Germany and Japan are fixed the designers can tweak Denmark a bit. I'm not sure what they would do, but considering they are the Vikings in everything but name I think they pretty much have to stay military oriented.
I like that idea, increased heal from pillage
Securion
Civ Veteran
Sweden is as much the "homeland" of the Vikings as Denmark are (in fact its Norway, Denmark, Iceland and Sweden, or "Scandinavia" as the area is called...), and are not that military oriented... You could give Denmark a mix as well.
Maybe something that have Danish Functionalism as a UA? But what would it do...?
azzaman333
meh
I believe he was referring to the fact that Bezerkers and amphibious invasion are the two stereotypical Viking traits. The only non-Viking aspect of Denmark's implementation is the Norwegian Ski Infantry, while on the other hand Sweden's implementation has no Viking aspects.
Catan_Settler
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2008
- Messages
- 448
You must be doing something wrong, as they can be quite strong in the right map types. Better suited to Archipelago or Small Continents where you can get the most use out of their UA, but honestly I don't know what kind of problems you could have with the Berserkers or Ski Infantry which are very strong UUs. Insane movement, and not just limited to water. Like all Domination/Conquest oriented civs they have no boosts to their economy/science/culture at all so dealing with that part of the game is up to you. Just like Huns, Mongolia, England, etc, etc. All those double UU civs leave the economy up to you to figure out, they just give you the military tools to quickly clear the map. And yeah, the Danes can clear a water map faster than anyone other than perhaps England.
Every civ can be quite strong. Few of the uniques are game-changingly powerful to the point where civ X is always better than civ Y at something.
But Denmark really is weak. The Berserker and Ski Infantry are not "very strong UUs." They're melee units, first of all, which puts them in the second tier at best, and compared to the best melee units (like the Impi and Janissary), they're just not very good. The Ski Infantry in particular is one of the poorest UUs in the game. It's kind of fun, sure, but it has a marginal and highly situational abilityand worse, the situation its ability calls for is one Denmark isn't especially likely to be in! Denmark has no start bias, so there's no guarantee you'll have any of the relevant terrain nearby, and their focus is going to be coastal terrain, not tundra and hills.
The change to naval combatwith ships now capable of taking citieshas also rendered the Berserker (and half of the Danish UA) much weaker.
I kind of feel they need a buff more then japan and germany do.
Maybe they picked the wrong viking. There were so many cooler more bloody vikings that made it into history then Harry but they had to pick him.
It might be because things were a bit more organized during his time but whenever he threatens me I just think "whatever harry you aren't a cool viking. You don't even have a combat or exploration bonus."
No I don't think they are completely and utterly broken to the point of being unusable. I think they are usable and can even succeed on deity but they require a bit more skill and luck then other civs because what they have is too situational even on an archipelago.
Germany and Japan might not be liked but their skills for 25% off land units and small buff to damage (japan not getting weaker when hurt) will be useful in a larger variety of situations.
A civ can have a terrible UA and still be great (mongols) so it wouldn't take much to bring them up again if making anything they have better.
Maybe they picked the wrong viking. There were so many cooler more bloody vikings that made it into history then Harry but they had to pick him.
It might be because things were a bit more organized during his time but whenever he threatens me I just think "whatever harry you aren't a cool viking. You don't even have a combat or exploration bonus."
No I don't think they are completely and utterly broken to the point of being unusable. I think they are usable and can even succeed on deity but they require a bit more skill and luck then other civs because what they have is too situational even on an archipelago.
Germany and Japan might not be liked but their skills for 25% off land units and small buff to damage (japan not getting weaker when hurt) will be useful in a larger variety of situations.
A civ can have a terrible UA and still be great (mongols) so it wouldn't take much to bring them up again if making anything they have better.
They kind of shine on Small Continents. Get yourself a Great Lighthouse, focus on the navy and the embarkation and you got one of the strongest naval invasion forces in the game (Seriously, it can rival England). The whole Embark-Disembark-Set Up-Shoot trick is quite nice, provided you ensure some protection for your Catapults/Trebs while they're in the water. You really have to focus on it to make Denmark worth the effort though, if the map doesn't allow for it, they're kind of...yeah. They rank with the USA, Germany and Japan in the bottom tier.
digrosz
Dirty Frank
The worst part about Denmark is the Norwegian Ski Infantry. I mean, really? A Norwegian Ski Infantry? Ok, It's kind of the same as Poland having Baltic cities in their list, but still.
Why not have a some sort of vikingship that replaces the trireme, but has a very high combat strength meant to plunder cities?
Why not have a some sort of vikingship that replaces the trireme, but has a very high combat strength meant to plunder cities?
It's more like the Swedish hakkapeliitta, who were actually Finnish cavalry. The hakkapeliitta served for Gustavus Adolphus himself though which makes them a lot more fitting than the seemingly random "Norwegian ski infantry".
I think the the ski infantry unit should be replaced, maybe with a UB that isn't even warmongering-related. Something to give the Danes a bit more viability after the ages of vikings pillaging.
Or longships for exploration and coastal a large city raider bonus replacing the caravel.
johnny_rudeboy
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2013
- Messages
- 288
Finland was a part of Sweden for 700 years and Norway part of Denmark for 400 years so it is not really strange that they use units from those countries.
And yes, Denmark as a civ is useless. Once you get to build Berserkers there is a small step in the tech tree to musket man. Problem is that the Berserkers replaces the Longsword man when vikings came about a bit earlier. And for historical reasons it would be more correct if the vikings got upgraded to longsword so the Berserker (or Viking as it should be called) should replace them swordsman. And they cant defend them self when embarked, now that is just silly since they where actually really good at it.
Ribannah
Fighter Druid
Denmark should have a unique building that replaces the Windmill, IMHO.
Acken
Deity
Should have just been Viking civ instead of Danemark to begin with and got a huge bonus somewhere in naval.
I mean just to begin with Harald is on a boat and none of their bonus involves boats... Bah only the disembark stuff which has some funny utilisations but really it's weak.
That civ is just silly and botched.
I mean just to begin with Harald is on a boat and none of their bonus involves boats... Bah only the disembark stuff which has some funny utilisations but really it's weak.
That civ is just silly and botched.
well pillaging without movecost is nice and that's about it... (go to war with a few horses and get some cash...)
I do think they need a buff... (how about something like Polynesia's can embark and cross oceans immediately?... maybe units can embark at start but cannot enter ocean, then all units can enter ocean after compass is researched?)
I do think they need a buff... (how about something like Polynesia's can embark and cross oceans immediately?... maybe units can embark at start but cannot enter ocean, then all units can enter ocean after compass is researched?)
DutchJob
Prince
The best thing about Denmark is that there's a great scenario attached to it.
Denmark was OK when melee was still important. But I rather go for the Education tech.
You can do hilarious stuff regarding amphibious warfare though. Movement is silly when coming out of the water.
Denmark was OK when melee was still important. But I rather go for the Education tech.
You can do hilarious stuff regarding amphibious warfare though. Movement is silly when coming out of the water.
