Design a Civ/Leader lineup for the First Civ6 Expansion

[Guandao]

The point of this thread is to design a Civ/Leader lineup for the first Civ6 Expansion. Which Civs/leaders do you want to see in the first expansion. Let's assume that the two DLCs featuring Civs from Africa and SE Asia are the last DLCs before the expansion.

You are allowed to have 9 Civs/or alternate leaders in the expansion. You can also tell me if this number should be higher. I'm assuming an alternate leader takes up some time and effort, almost as much as an entire Civ.

Here are my choices:
Babylon- Hammurabi
Carthage-Hannibal Barca
Ethiopia-Menelik II
Incas-Topa Inca Yupanqui
Korea-Seondeok of Silla
Maya-Lady Six Sky
Mongolia-Genghis Khan
Ottomans-Selim I
Shawnee-Tecumseh

I was considering putting European Civs like Netherlands, Portugal, and the Celts, but I ran out of space. I would definitely put them in a second expansion.

 

[Guandao]

This will be a space listing all the possible Civs/leaders we would want in an expansion:
Ashanti-
Osei Kofi Tutu I
Yaa Asantewaa
Argentina-
Eva Peron
Armenia-
Assyria-
Shammuramat
Austria-
Charles V
Maria Theresa
Babylon-
Hammurabi
Belgium-
Leopold II
Benin-
Queen Idia
Bohemia-
Charles IV
Ottokar II
Wenceslaus II
Britons-
Boudica
Cartimandua
Burma-
Bayinnaung
Byzantium-
Alexios I Komnenos
Basil II
Julian the Apostate
Justinian
Irene
Theodora
Carthage-
Dido
Hannibal Barca
Cherokee-
Nancy Ward
Ostenaco
Denmark-
Margaret I
Ethiopia-
Menelik II
Zara Yaqob
Georgia-
Tamar
Haida-
Koyah
Hausa-
Amina
Hittites-
Puduhepa
Suppiluliuma I
Hungary-
Matthias Corvinus
Stephen I
Incas-
Huayna Capac
Manco Capac
Pachacuti
Topa Inca Yupanqui
Indonesia- (according to Eagle Pursuit, this will be in the SE Asian DLC)
Iroquois-
Deganawida
Jigonhsasee
Joseph Brant
Logan the Orator
Israel/Hebrews-
Deborah
Salome Alexandra
Italy-
Enrico Dandolo
Federico da Montefeltro
Francesci I Sforza
Lorenzo de Medici
Khmer-
Suryavarman II
Korea-
Gwanggaeto
Myeongseong
Sejong
Seondeok of Silla
Madagascar-
Ranavalona
Mali-
Askia
Mansa Musa
Maori-
Te Rauparaha
Maya-
K'inich Yax K'uk' Mo'
Lady Six Sky
Lady Xoc
Pacal
Yik'in Chan K'awiil
Mongolia-
Borte
Genghis Khan
Kublai Khan
Ogedei Khan
Morocco-
Moulay Ismail
Ndongo-
Ana Nzinga
Netherlands-
Wilhelmina
Willem van Oranje
Nubia-
Amanishakheto
Ottomans-
Abdulmecid I
Ataturk
Selim I
Suleiman
Outremer-
Godfrey of Bouillon
Phoenicia-
Polynesia-
Portugal-
Henry the Navigator
Joao II
John III
Seminole-
Osceola
Serbia-
Stefan Nemanja
Shawnee-
Tecumseh
Sioux/Lakota-
Sitting Bull
Swahili/Kilwa-
Switzerland-
Taino-
Anacaona
Vietnam-
Le Loi
Zimbabwe-

 

[Guandao]

Alternate Leaders:
America-
Abraham Lincoln
Dwight Eisenhower
George Washington
John F. Kennedy
Thomas Jefferson
China-
Kangxi Emperor
Wu Zetian
Yongle Emperor
Egypt-
Khufu
Ramesses II
Thutmose III
England-
Alfred the Great
Churchill
Elizabeth I
Henry V
Richard the Lionheart
France-
Charles VI
Jeanne d'Arc
Louis XIV
Napoleon
Germany-
Baron vom Stein
Bismarck
Otto the Great
Greece-
Agamemnon
India-
Akbar
Ashoka
Chandragupta
Krishnadevaraya
Shah Jahan
Shivaji
Japan-
Kanmu
Meiji Emperor
Saigo Takamori
Kongo-
Anna Nzinga
Persia-
Khosrau I
Poland-
Pilsudski
Rome-
Augustus Caesar
Scipio Africanus
Russia-
Alexander II
Catherine the Great
Ivan III
Nikita Khrushchev
Stalin
Spain-
Isabella

 

[megabearsfan]

Kind of hard to do without knowing what kinds of new features are going to be in the expansion. Generally, I would assume that the civ/leader selections would be civs that would have abilities that would relate to the new mechanics. For example, a lot of the new civs in Gods & Kings had religious-themed abilities. A few civs in Brave New World had trade route-themed abilities.

But if I were to chose civs and leaders that I'd like to see in an expansion, irrespective of that expansion's feature set, I'd probably like (in ranked order):
Carthage / Phoenicia,
Ottoman,
Polynesia / Oceania,
Lakota / Sioux,
Inca and/or Maya,
Mongolia,
Indonesia,
Mali,
Isreal (so that we'll have somebody who founds the Jewish religion).

I'd also like to see some alternate leaders for existing civs:
Akbar of India (more militaristic Indian leader as an alternate to Gandhi),
a Byzantine leader as an alternate for Rome,
Richard the Lionheart of England (as a medieval English empire),
Bismark of Germany (to represent the modern German state),
Napoleon of France (with some awesome artillery and is forbidden from researching Steam Power, LoL)

Case in point, something that I've pitched in the past (http://www.megabearsfan.net/post/2015/09/01/Civ-VI-feature-wishlist.aspx#climate) is to have changing climates and nomadic civs. So if a feature like that were added in an expansion, then civs with a nomadic theme would be appropriate. Good candidates would include civs like Mongolia, Lakota, Huns, Visigoths, maybe Israel, and maybe a re-work or alternate leader for Scythia, etc.

If the expansion brings back U.N. or World Congress-type stuff, then civs / leaders with diplomatic theming are appropriate. Ottomans, Bismark (Germany alt), Churchill (England alt), King Arthur (England alt, maybe?), and Polynesia become good candidates (Polynesia because of the early ocean-crossing ability typically granting them early contact with all other civs).

If the expansion reworks the game's economic features and resources (by, say, introducing a resource market or something like that), then civs like Mali and Morocco become good candidates.

If it's focused around overseas colonies, then civs like Netherlands / Dutch / Holland, new leaders for Spain and England and France, Polynesia (again) all become good candidates.

etc...

So ya, kind of hard to pick good civs without at least some idea of what the expansion is going to be about...

 

[Morningcalm]

Do we know it will be 9 new civs for sure?

The only change I'd make to Guandao's list is replacing the Shawnee with the Iroquois (Logan the Orator), and the Ottomans with the Hebrews (Salome Alexandra) (since Carthage will fill the naval warfare slot nicely).

If we want an exhaustive list of possible options, I would add:
Ashanti (Yaa Asantewaa)
Benin (Queen Idia)

But yeah, I would argue in favor of no more European civs in the first expansion. We have plenty already. Maybe the first DLC post-1st expansion can be Byzantium or Netherlands, etc, but frankly I find Europe very well-trod territory now. It's time we had Benin, etc in the game.

 

[megabearsfan]

But yeah, I would argue in favor of no more European civs in the first expansion. We have plenty already. Maybe the first DLC post-1st expansion can be Byzantium or Netherlands, etc, but frankly I find Europe very well-trod territory now. It's time we had Benin, etc in the game.

New leaders for a couple European civs wouldn't be bad though, such as my aforementioned suggestion as a Byzantine leader as an alt for Trajan.
I'm really curious to know what the breakdown is going to be for new civs verus alternate leaders for existing civs, or if any expansion civs would come with multiple leaders.

 

[Morningcalm]

New leaders for a couple European civs wouldn't be bad though, such as my aforementioned suggestion as a Byzantine leader as an alt for Trajan.
I'm really curious to know what the breakdown is going to be for new civs verus alternate leaders for existing civs, or if any expansion civs would come with multiple leaders.

Too many Europeans spoil the broth. We have plenty of other mighty civilizations from other continents that haven't even been touched. The exclusion of Mongols from the base game in particular is puzzling.

 

[Mobfire]

Mongolia - Ogedei Khan
Ottomans - Suleiman
Maya - Yik'in Chan K'awiil
Inca - Huayna Capac
Maori - Te Rauparaha
Portugal - John III
Haida - Koyah
Ashanti - Yaa Asantewaa
India Alt Leader - Krishnadevaraya

Mongolia, Inca, and Maya return after being very much missed. Haida is introduced as a new civ focused on culture and coastal warfare, with the Maori also representing the Polynesian region that could introduce some mechanics based on Maori beliefs and warfare. The Ashanti fill a niche representing Africa as well as having the only female leader of the expansion, although I would have also included Seondeok of Korea if there was 1 more slot.

There would be a scenario surrounding the exploration of the Indian Ocean featuring John III of Portugal, Suleiman the Magnificent of the Ottomans, and the new alternate leader of India Krishnadevaraya. All of their reigns overlapped, and if some new natural wonders and city states were sprinkled in this would be a great signature scenario for the expansion. Plus, there would finally be a leader of India who isn't Gandhi.

 

[Lord of War N02]

I think numbers of new civs should be 10 or 11 which would fill more spaces for scenario

Carthage/Phoenicia - Dido
Korea - Gwanggaeto of Gorguyeo
Ottomans/Turkey - Abdulmecid I
Hungary - Stephen I
Mongolia - Kublai Khan
Inca - Manco Capac
Mali - Mansa Musa
Vietnam - Le Loi
Iroquois - Joseph Brant
Serbia - Stefan Nemanja
Cherokee - Ostenaco

Scenario:
American Revolution: America(playable), England(playable), Spain(playable), Iroquois(playable), Cherokee(playable)
Ottoman Conquest: Ottomans, Byzantium(Greek/Macedon reused), Serbia, Hungary, Russia, Poland, Holy Roman Empire/Austria(reused Germany), Venice(Reused Rome), France, Spain, Persia, Mamluk(reused Arabia)
Punic War: Carthage(playable), Rome(playable)

Alternate leader for existing CIV I would like to see
Khosrau I for Persia
Alfred the Great for England
Kangxi for China
Thutmose III for Egypt
Thomas Jefferson for America
Pilsudski for Poland
Bismarck for Germany
Kanmu for Japan

 

[Xandinho]

I think we'll see more than 9 civs per expansion this time, but anyway:

Inca - Huayna Capac
Mongolia - Genghis Khan
Maya - Pacal
Ottomans - Suleiman
Portugal - Joao II
Netherlands - William
Ethiopia - Zara Yaqob
Mali - Mansa Musa
Khmer - Suryavarman II

Extending the list to 12, in which I believe it will be the average of civs included per expansion at this time:

Hungary - Stephen I
Ashanti - Yaa Asantewaa
Korea - Sejong

The civs choices always seem to be a mix of popular civs with the new names never included before.

Alternative Leaders:

America - George Washington
China - Wu Zetian
Egypt - Ramses II
Rome - Augustus Caesar
France - Napoleon
England - Elizabeth
India - Ashoka
Germany - Bismarck
Russia - Catherine

 

[Roman Citizen]

Here's my choices
Mayans
K'inich Yax K'uk" Mo'
Pacal the Great
Lady Six Sky
Korea
Seondeok
Ashanti
Osei Kofi Tutu I
Mongolia
Genghis Khan
Inca
Tupac Inca Yupanqui
Pachacuti
Burma
Bayinnaung
Seminole
Osceola
Ethiopia
Menelik II
Italy
Lorenzo de Medici
Francesci I Sforza
Federico da Montefeltro
Enrico Dondolo
Ottoman
Suleiman the Magnificent
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk
More leaders for
India
Shah Jahan
Shivaji
Krishnadevaraya
Germany
Otto the Great
England
Alfred the Great
Richard the Lionheart
Elizabeth I
Kongo
Queen Anna Nzinga
France
Charles VI
Louis XIV
America
Thomas Jefferson
John F. Kennedy
China
Kangxi
Yongle Emperor
Russia
Alexander II
Nikita Khrashchev
Japan
Emperor Meiji
Saigo Takamori


Scenarios
Renaissance Italy
You are in a race to see who can generate enough culture before time runs out.
Cold War
America and the soviet union is in an Ideological cold war in which ideology would prevail in the world. Capitalism or Communism.
Japanese Revolution
The Meiji restoration has begun! The Samurai have lost their place in society, now they fight to see if they can take back Japan or become history.
Classical Maya
The City states of the Maya are at their peak and your people are asking you to compete to see if you can survive in the crowed Yucatan peninsula.
War of the Crusaders
Pope Urban II is calling the Kings of Europe to retake the holy Land. Retaking it would already be a challenge, but defending it and maybe taking more land would be a harder challenge.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Kingdom of Bohemia
- Charles IV
- Ottokar II
- Wenceslaus II
Inca
- Pachacuti
- Huayna Capac
Ottoman Empire
- Suleiman the Magnificent
- Mehmed II
Byzantium
- Alexios I Komnenos
- Justinian
- Theodora
- Basil II
Mongolia
- Genghis Khan
- Kublai Khan
Carthage
- Hannibal Barca
Korea
- Sejong the Great
- Myeongseong
Netherlands
- Willem van Oranje
Mali
- Mansa Musa

 

[Siptah]

I think some of the most wanted civs will wait till expansion #2.
So here's my list of 9 new civs and their leaders.

returning civs:
Inca - Tupaq Inka Yupanki
Portugal - João II
Mali - Mansa Musa (since I think that Ethiopia will come with the DLC)
Morocco - Moulay Ismail
Maya - Yik'in Chan K'awiil
Hittites - Šuppiluliuma I
Iroquois - Deganawida

new civs:
Ashanti - Osei Kofi Tutu I
Haida - Koyah

 

[Morningcalm]

Alternate leader suggestions:

Abraham Lincoln (US)
Krishnadevaraya or Ashoka (India)
Henry V ("England")
Wu Zetian / Kangxi (China)
Rameses II / Thutmose III (Egypt)

Here's my choices
Kongo
Queen Anna Nzinga

And for the umpteenth time, Ana Nzinga did NOT. EVER. LEAD. KONGO. She was a ruler of two kingdoms (Ndongo and Matamba) that paid tribute to Kongo. Not Kongo itself.

 

[Guandao]

I do think Firaxis will be considering including a certain amount of female leaders in the first expansion. There were four female leaders in Gods and Kings.
Which civs do you think will likely have a female leader?

 

[Kimiimaro]

I do think Firaxis will be considering including a certain amount of female leaders in the first expansion. There were four female leaders in Gods and Kings.
Which civs do you think will likely have a female leader?

Byzantium, Korea and Mayans have suitable female leaders.

 

[Siptah]

I do think Firaxis will be considering including a certain amount of female leaders in the first expansion. There were four female leaders in Gods and Kings.
Which civs do you think will likely have a female leader?

You're right, I completely forgot about that in my list ;-) So Georgia will be in the expansion.

 

[Morningcalm]

Byzantium, Korea and Mayans have suitable female leaders.

Indeed. And many African nations besides. (I suspect they might add some African nations in expansion 1 as well--hoping for Ashanti or Benin, but Berbers led by Kahina would be fun too. For the Middle East, Palmyra led by Zenobia would be fun, or Gran Colombia led by Simon Bolivar.

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

You know, I wouldn't mind seeing Akhenaten as an alternate leader for Egypt in an expansion. I concede that he wasn't very "effective for Aten," but despite his controversial actions, he still managed to stay in power for 18 years, his country survived his reign and rule of said country stayed in the family for a little bit after his death.

All of is more than I can say for Zenobia.

Honestly, with Civ6 getting so many DLC nations and the possibility of alternate leaders being added, I expect we'll actually see fewer new civilizations added per expansion this time than in past games.

In addition, as previous posters have mentioned, we don't know what mechanics this expansions would introduce, which is certainly something that would strongly impact the civilizations the developers decide to add.

I don't particularly expect a certainly don't desire for most of the leaders in Civ5 to return. There are obvious exceptions, like Shaka and Genghis who are so important to and definitive for their Civ, and newcomers like Enrico or Gajah (both of whom I'd actually like to see again). Bismark might just be a necessity if Germany is to get a second leader, and William if the Netherlands are to be featured at all. Huran and Pacachuti aren't defining leaders for their civs and so would be more acceptable. Basically, I'm glad that traditional leaders choices are largely being foregone. I'm glad not to be seeing Isabella or Napoleon again, and I'd love to see new faces for Byzantium, the Ottomans, and others.

 

[Morningcalm]

Zenobia had more power and influence than Akhenaten, and did more with what she had. She was also a national hero, whereas Akhenaten was a national villain. Akhenaten only stayed in power for 18 years because assassins weren't after him. That said, his demise wasn't exactly at a ripe old age, so who knows. And it's no accomplishment to have the rule of said country remain in your family a little bit *after your death*. Rather, what you did *during your life* is what matters. Akhenaten focused on internal policy and led numerous losses to the Hittites go largely unchallenged. Maybe he could be in the game with a military debuff.