[DG2] Chat Matters

ice2k4 said:
I disagree, what if a nation asks us to stop trading with a certain civ. If your really playing a good civ game, you dont go on your first instinct to deny the request. Many a times I find it extremely beneficial to stop trading. This is also not something you can deny and go back to later, without repercussions. Diplomatically you lose -1 with the requesting civ. You cant save the game either with the diplo screen open. I think that the Foreign Adviser if present should decide and allow input from citizens. If the Adviser is absent from turnchat then the citizens who took time out of their schedule to attend should be able to vote and discuss such an unexpected decision.
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To a certain extent some of these things can be handled in the forums.

However, practically speaking you can't anticipate everything the game forces you to decide right then and there. And as Ice suggests this is one reason why turnchats are valuable.

Would you rather a DP go with his instinct and find out later there was something he missed when he made that decision. Or would you rather the DP ask the people who are available for advice, so that they can point out the thread he missed, or point out the strategic implication he missed.

"Rome Demands you stop Trading with China!"
"Okay, public polls show China is low on our favorite list, and we want to stay friendly with Ceaser, so sure we'll stop"
~agree~
"You have lost your sole source of Iron"
"WHAT!?!?!"

This may be an extreme scenario, but fact of the matter is it's easy to miss a single post or forget a single fact when making such decisions. And a Foreign Advisor can't include all possible demands in their instructions.

Gonna have an instruction for every leader, ever tech, ever amount of gold, every "stop trading with" scenario?

You can try but I doubt you could cover them all and still enjoy the job.


Also, any comments on my "preliminary turnchat guidlines"? I guess the clarification for details on "Un-pausable game events" might be in order, though honestly I think they're fairly well covered in the current draft.
 
Also, I think we need to discuss who is in charge of the chatroom (are moderators operators? And the President/DP too?) as well as write up a document (either here or via Google Docs) that we can post to help explain how to get the chat, some basic commands, and how turnchats work in general.
 
I would see that the Mods, Presidents, and the DP would be operators in the Chatroom.
 
Operators??? We definetly need a guide for this :p.
 
This was taken from my preliminary guide lines in the previous thread. Added a Section on Ops.

Turn Chats

Turnchats are sessions held in the Demogame chatroom where the Designated Player plays the save. While playing the DP will report on events and his actions as they play out.

Operators
CFC Moderators shall have Operator privileges in the Demogame Chat room.

Elected officials, primarily the DP, shall be given Half-Op privileges to help enforce order in the Chat Room.

Unless deemed necessary by chatroom operators to enforce order in the chatroom, citizens who attend the turnchat will be allowed to voice their opinions as the game plays out.


In Chat Actions/Decisions
Actions during the turnchat MAY NOT violate any forum decision/poll.

Any major events shall result in the end of the turnchat unless superceded by a decision in the forums.

Examples of Major Events include...
- Another civilization declaring war on us
- Discovering Another civilization
- insert various other theoretical scenarios here ​

Examples of a superceding decision in the Forums
- A forum decision not to end the turn chat after discovering each new civilization but only if 3 civilizations are discovered in one turnchat in order to prevent slowing of the game.​

The DP can also call to stop the game and return to the forums if he feels there are significant advantages to doing so, such as numerous trade opertunities are available without proper forum instructions.

Decisions can be made during the turn chat may only regard minor details of play, such as which specific unit in a stack to use to attack a city, first, second, etc. If anything more major is required discussion shall return to the forums for further review.


Turnchat Instructions
Turnchat Instructions most be posted in the forums at least 24 hours before a Turnchat to allow some public review. Officials MAY NOT post vague instructions with the intent of giving them during the turn chat. Instructions must be detailed enough that should the official be absent the DP would be able to play through the save without major problems.

It is the Secretary's responcibility to announce if they are unable to post Instructions and it is the Deputy's responcibility to post when the Secretary is unable to. If neither is able to post instructions, it is their responcibility to designate someone else who can post instructions on their behalf.

The President should post the Turnchat thread about 4 days before the planned turnchat to give leaders a place to post instructions and to announce the time of the turnchat.

Public Turnchat Votes - assuming we even allow these
Turnchat Votes - These votes are purely informational, requested by the DP to help them make the MINOR decisions necessary during a chat. These votes are NOT legally binding as they do not represent the will of the citizenry as a whole. The DP may disregard the result of any vote if they choose, or if the result clashes with decisions made in the forums.
Click to expand...
 
Sounds good Falcon, one thing that could be nice is having the officials post their instructions in their own thread if the turnchat thread isn't up yet, so they won't forget, and people can discuss earlier.

@Rik, nice avatar+title :p
 
dutchfire said:
Sounds good Falcon, one thing that could be nice is having the officials post their instructions in their own thread if the turnchat thread isn't up yet, so they won't forget, and people can discuss earlier.
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Not a bad Idea, though I feel that shouldn't really happen, turnchat threads should be up well in advance. But if they aren't I agree instructions should be posted somewhere, such as their own thread, if the turnchat thread is not up.

EDIT: WOOT!! Now I'm the thread starter!
 
DaveShack said:
Yay, part of my plan to firmly reattach you to the game is working. :cool:
Click to expand...

It's a conspiracy man.... a conspiracy I tell ya.....

Anyway, I added a section on the last "draft" which states that a turnchat tread must be started 4 days before the planned turnchat (in italics near the bottom).

After writing that down, I think we need a section on how often the turn chats are so someone can't just delay and say "not planning on doing the chat for four more days so I'm on time." Even if the turnchat was originally planned that day.

Also, trying not to be too restrictive in the language. We need guidelines which needs to be followed, but people shouldn't be punished for unplanned RL restrictions, or be punished for very minor violations (ie. 1 hour late).
 
DaveShack said:
I would now like to paraphrase a quote of myself: If the majority does something a citizen doesn't like, I'd rather that citizen just walk away instead of trying to take away the majority's fun.
Click to expand...


I know to whom this is directed, but it is still a terrible thing to say. It flies in the face of everything the Democracy Game was supposed to be about.

Chats will never work properly because the majority of the populace will not have time to devote 3 hours twice a week (typical chat length and cycle). Either that or they will not wish to sit through immature postings of camel spit (or whatever) while waiting for the DP to post every 2-3 minutes. Not to mention the folly of giving too much power to an unelected, unaccountable member of the DP Pool. And don't worry, you can still count on the occasional chat ambush from the undesirables in the minority when they can make the time to walk into the meeting of "those that matter and care" to voice their opinions.

If the majority prefers a social gathering over a game of simulated government, then have fun, kids. Good thing for me that I had already taken your quoted advice before I even read it. ;)

DZ keeps walkin'........
 
Donovan Zoi said:
Chats will never work properly because the majority of the populace will not have time to devote 3 hours twice a week (typical chat length and cycle). Either that or they will not wish to sit through immature postings of camel spit (or whatever) while waiting for the DP to post every 2-3 minutes. Not to mention the folly of giving too much power to an unelected, unaccountable member of the DP Pool. And don't worry, you can still count on the occasional chat ambush from the undesirables in the minority when they can make the time to walk into the meeting of "those that matter and care" to voice their opinions.

If the majority prefers a social gathering over a game of simulated government...
Click to expand...

I agree, most of the populace will not have the time, but it is an open avenue for participation and being able to "watch" the game play out as it happens, assuming you have time for it. If we have "immature postings of camel spit" that's when the Ops step to moderate the channel to restore order.

On the DP pool issue, that's why I'm a fan of the CoC.
 
After writing that down, I think we need a section on how often the turn chats are so someone can't just delay and say "not planning on doing the chat for four more days so I'm on time." Even if the turnchat was originally planned that day.
Click to expand...

Originally posted this in the offices thread, but realized it should go here:
Either way I still would like to go back to my idea posted above. Whatever you decide, is it possible that we can schedule turn chats well in advance (at the beginning of the term) so we can control the pace of the game. This way if you have a CoC, the President can plan more properly and if something comes up where he can't make it, the CoC gets it to a person who can make it. Or if we do a DP, the DP's do not have to go in turn and can work it out where someone will be able to play.

I think planning turn chats right after finishing one really slows down the game and does not allow us to effectively control the pace. If some kind of discussion comes up where we need more time, of course we could delay, but for the majority, the game would be controlled. You must remember one of the main problems we had was the pace of the game.
 
Donovan Zoi said:
I know to whom this is directed
Click to expand...

Are you sure? ;) There are many possibilities.

It flies in the face of everything the Democracy Game was supposed to be about.
Click to expand...

Should minority viewpoints be accomodated? Of course they should, but not at the expense of destroying everything. The quote was directed towards people who can't let things go. I make that mistake myself sometimes, so it's also advice to myself to concede a battle or two to win the larger war. I will advocate my viewpoints, and live with the things that don't go my way -- all I can ask is for others to do the same.
 
Given the lack of activity for about a week in this thread a poll might be in order for turnchat vs. no turnchat.
 
It's not really turnchat vs no turnchat, it's really "how much" turnchat power, however in this case a yes/no poll to start off with might be productive. I'm tempted to advocate that the DP doesn't need to follow instructions at all if "no" wins. :mischief:
 
DaveShack said:
It's not really turnchat vs no turnchat, it's really "how much" turnchat power, however in this case a yes/no poll to start off with might be productive. I'm tempted to advocate that the DP doesn't need to follow instructions at all if "no" wins. :mischief:
Click to expand...

I agree, I feel like a "banning of turnchats" would be a sad day for the DG indeed.....
 
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