DG6 Discussion: The Naming of Things

[Octavian X]

This probably isn't all that important, but I think it deserves a few thoughts.

This game saw a rather interesting process when it came naming things. Governors were again given free reign to name provinces as they wished (Zarnia being an example I can only call infamous - sorry Zarn. - or the rancor around the Southwest province in DG2). City names were given by registrees, some with few or no posts in this forum, registration excluded. The latter process would later give rise to organization questions.

Would it be a good idea, then, to retain this process? Or, is there a way to make it more democratic?

I think a system were polling took place to determine new names would work for naming provinces and cities. This could be a good duty for the Ministry of Culture's otherwise lackluster list of reponsibiliites (It's always the culture minister dialog box, iirc, that pops up when you rename a city). Names could be proposed, voted on, and used, with the option that a later poll on a later date be used if renaming is deemed necessary. This gives the city naming rights over to the greater populace, and not to the anonymous stranger with only one post on the CFC boards.

So, what are your thoughts on the matter? What is the better way of the Naming of, well, names?

 

[Ginger_Ale]

For Provinces, definately poll them after a discussion by the culture or domestic ministry. Giving the power to one person for the name of a province that will stay for the rest of the demogame is a bit too strong I would think.

For Cities, I like the idea of having a citizen name them, but maybe there is some we can work it so that, like you said, random people don't sign up and give a city name then disappear for the rest of the demogame. Any ideas?

 

[Gres]

Not sure, there is a number of ways we could go about doing this. We could have a thread where citizens propose names for a province and the president chooses maybe five that seem to be popular and then he can set up a poll. Somethin like that. Just one way we could do it Though, I think it should be changed from the way it is now

 

[Black_Hole]

keep it, as for the "too much power" thing, really is it gonna matter what we call a province? its more traditional thus it should stay exactly the same. governors name provinces, president first city, then citizens by order of citizen registry for rest of cities

 

[Eklektikos]

I'd be rather against instituting polling for province and/or city names. I like the way in which naming currently allows individual citizens to put their own personal stamp on a small piece of the game.

 

[Provolution]

Still, this process should follow extremely strict rules with absolutely no room for campaigning, political interpretation and hidden agendas. In fact, there should be no timer
or deadline attached to fix this, and absolutely no polls at all. There should also be penalties carved out in stone for neglecting this.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

I think that we should still let the first governor of a province choose its name. The only thing I may add is that we confirm the selection via poll(50% or better okays it).

However for city naming, I would like to see us follow the procedure implemented during DG2. It went something like this:

1st Term President
1st Term Vice-President
1st Term Ministers
1st Term Governors
1st Term Judiciary
2nd Term President
2nd Term Vice-President
2nd Term Ministers...and so on......

Honorary Citizens
1st Term Ministry Deputies
1st Term Gubernatorial Deputies
2nd Term Ministry Deputies
2nd Term Gubernatorial Deputies........and so on.....
Citizen Registry - Earliest Post

The above is pretty close, I believe, and requires a player to earn the right to name a city. It also will eventually reward those who get in the game early but choose not to run for office.

Heck, doing it this way, the city name a candidate chooses could end up being an election issue!

While I heartily endorse the honorable Presidential candidate's platform in its entirety, I would be remiss in my duties to the Republic if I were to allow him to name our next great city Buttsmell. Therefore, I must vote for the other guy.

What does everyone think?

EDIT: Forgot VP!

 

[Provolution]

I think citizen registry should be omitted for posterity from any legally binding or procedural decision. The consequences for violating this, in particular if we get a Private Law (driving the RPG), should be crystal clear and severe.
City names should also be polled, with the ministers list polled versus city names backed by three or more citizens in the forums.

 

[DaveShack]

I agree with DZ, those who participate the most should get naming rights first. The reason we went away from that method was that it became difficult to keep track of who had used their naming rights. The true purpose of the naming office was to keep it straight who was up next, and organize the names to be used in a given play session, in priority order, so the DP didn't have to go searching each time a name is needed.

We should not put each and every name up for a vote, as that would take forever for very little gain. We could have a mechanism to challenge a name and force another to be chosen (by the same citizen who chose the first name), for example at least 1/10 the census rounded up must sign a petition asking the name to be changed and a majority of those voting must agree.

Province names are a special case. When we played Rome, someone came up with the idea of naming the 1st 7 provinces for the 7 hills of Rome. The governor got to choose from that list. We should wait to decide this until the civ is chosen, as there may be civ-specific names we want to use.

 

[blackheart]

Governor's name their provinces. Besides, most governors poll what to name their provinces. President names first city.

As for rest of cities, why bother putting everything up for vote? That just creates more beauracratic bull that we don't need. How about hold mayor elections for new cities and let the mayor name it?

 

[Cyc]

I have to agree with Eklektikos. The way we have it now is convenient, easy to modify if needed, and well known to everyone. It does benefit the people that participate early. The people who sign up early. The reason (DZ & DS) we broke away from using elected offices as a means of determining the order of city naming, was people only got elected to name a city, and that was there major work for the Term. As everyone knows, the elections can be merely a popularity contest. Therefore we could see people fromout of nowhere (that we've never seen post in here before) win one of the first Term Offices, name a core city and leave. Tell me this couldn't happen. DS says "The reason we went away from that method was that it became difficult to keep track of who had used their naming rights. The true purpose of the naming office was to keep it straight who was up next, and organize the names to be used in a given play session, in priority order, so the DP didn't have to go searching each time a name is needed.". DS - if you think about it, the same situation is going to arise with DZ's proposal. The Term 1 Office holders will number what - 13? If we get a second Province, yes. How many cities are we going to place in the first Term? 7? 5? How many did we place first Term this game? So... there will be a list of people to look up for the Term 2 DPs when they want to know who's city name to use. Because we will still be using Term 1's list in Term 2, Term 2's list will be used in Term 3 and so on. Then after we finish using whatever's Term Office-Holder's list, we have to go back to the Citizen's Registry and try to remember who's next, oh, wait a minute, were they in office during any of the previous Terms? Gee, I don't know, let's research that. It just goes on and on.

Use the Citizen's Registry (CR) for naming cities. The first Governor names the Province. And we don't need confirmation polls. What a rediculous idea. You can name your Province or city, unless I don't like your name...If DZ wants to name a city Buttsmell because it's his middle name, who am I to take that away from him? It would be selfish and greedy of me to impose my wants upon him. It's his game too. And it's the right of every citizen to name a city. Let's stop making changes to rules that take away from the common people.

 

[Gres]

Where as you all have convinced me that the naming of cities is such a trivial matter that a poll is not necessary, I have to say that it is important enough to have a way of changing the name if enough citizens are not happy with the name. The reason it is important enough is because the emphasis this game has on RPGing is great. We put a lot of effort in to making our civilization feel as much like a real one as possible (might be stretching it). We all spend so much time on these forums and playing this game and playing the role of government officials and even ordinary citizens, that I would hate for the roleplaying to be disrupted by the name of Buttsmell.
Buttsmell is not an entirely bad name, I am using, as you were, to prove my point. Basically, If the people don't want it then it is the governments job to get rid of it. That is what a Democracy is all about. From the people, By the people, For the people.

P.S. NO Idea is Ridiculous

 

[DaveShack]

Therefore we could see people fromout of nowhere (that we've never seen post in here before) win one of the first Term Offices, name a core city and leave.

Who ever did something like that? Some people might be very active the first month and get dragged away by RL, but I've never seen someone come in, make a splash as their first act as a citizen, and then leave.

How's that scenario any different than people who sign up in the citizen's registry and their only contribution to the game ever is to get a city named? There should be dues to pay before one gets such an honor.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Use the Citizen's Registry (CR) for naming cities. The first Governor names the Province. And we don't need confirmation polls. What a rediculous idea. You can name your Province or city, unless I don't like your name...If DZ wants to name a city Buttsmell because it's his middle name, who am I to take that away from him? It would be selfish and greedy of me to impose my wants upon him. It's his game too. And it's the right of every citizen to name a city. Let's stop making changes to rules that take away from the common people.

At last, someone finally deciphered what the X in DX_Zoi means......

Cyc, sometimes your populist views teeter on the brink of anarchy. And for someone who constantly champions the will of the people, it is a shame that you would see fit to leave them out of the picture here.

The people as a whole should be allowed to shield their great nation from an immature name dreamed up by one citizen. And naming should be a priviledge, not a right. Who cares if a guy shows up for one term and bolts, as long as he accomplished something in his first term office? From an historical aspect, this "founding father" should get the tribute he/she deserves. That's why the Term 1, 2 ,3 system makes sense.

If you are worried about my system being difficult, I will run it myself. It's a sentence I will gladly serve for being allowed the right to name our second city in DG4 (as the first citizen in the Registry) and then pretty much vanishing for the rest of that game. Now how fair was that??

 

[Black_Hole]

im still kinda confused on your proposal DZ, now on the list term2 officials would get to name cities b4 the citizen registry, however what happens when we run out of elected officials in term 1, do we use the registry then? and then go back to term 2 once term 2 starts? and also another ?: will people be able to name cities twice? like 1 person is vp one term and then pres the next or something similar...

 

[Donovan Zoi]

im still kinda confused on your proposal DZ, now on the list term2 officials would get to name cities b4 the citizen registry, however what happens when we run out of elected officials in term 1, do we use the registry then? and then go back to term 2 once term 2 starts? and also another ?: will people be able to name cities twice? like 1 person is vp one term and then pres the next or something similar...

No, Black Hole, no one gets to name a second city until everyone has done so. Once someone has named a city as a Term 1 official, he would not get to do so again if re-elected in term 2 for any position. In the case that government officials "run out," then there would be a temporary switch to the Citizen Registry until the next term begins.