Diplomacy=********?

[Travisw111]

Has anyone noticed how ******** the diplomacy is? I'm playing on the 2nd easiest difficulty(warlord) and all the civs demand way more from me in any trade then what is fair. Take this for example. The Zulu wanted to exchange world maps. So a fair exchange would be just to exchange world maps to each other right? Wrong, they wanted 200 gold, Democracy, and my world map in exchange for their world map. So I reoffered him just to exchange world maps, and he was insulted by my offer! He said that this was "unfair". LOL. Yah thats an unfair offer, I wish I could demand people would pay me gold and an tech advance in addition to exchanging something and get away with it. Its bs. All the civs do it to you, and it just pisses me off how ******** it is. Oh and Civs will also not give away anyone of their cities, for any price. I tried trading 9 of my cities(which all had 12 people in them), all my gold(600), all my luxuries, and everything else I had in exchange for one of their cities with 5 people in it. You would think that this would be a hugely profitable deal, and they could easily just take the offer and wipe me out of existence since they would gain freaking 9 cities and only lose 1, and get tons of other stuff. BUt noooooo, thats an unfair deal since obviously all the other civ leaders have huge lobotomies and can't comprehend whats fair in a trade, and why they should trade when they get a really good offer. I'm sorry but Civ 2 and Alpha Centauri were never this unfair when it came to trading stuff with other civs, even on the higher skill levels. Oh and also, since I don't want to give in to the bad deals, that means that I can't rely on other civs like I could in the other games, and it usually leads to war when I refuse them all the time. Well, just one of my beefs with this game

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Having not yet played, I'm speaking from a position of presumption, but is it possible that you are considerably weaker then they are? If a civ is more powerful then you, then I would certainly expect them to try and screw you over, just as I would do to them if the roles were reversed.

 

[Travisw111]

No believe me, this happened even with a civ that had 1 town left, that had about 5 military units to my dozens.

 

[WUM]

looks like you just suck at diplomacy...
or you have the wrong enemy-civs.

somewhere at these forum is a story, i think by CornMaster or Irate, and he conquered a city, offered peace afterwards and 'jokingly demanded an extra city' which he got!!!

so maybe in return to peace the other civs are more willingly to give away their cities...

 

[Mozenwrath]

I would say the cities for peace thing sounds more realistic. I can't think of one occasion in history when a nation has bought a city from another nation with a map and some gold, can you?

 

[WUM]

No,
but i would have liked it a lot though,
to make up for the loss of spies buying cities...
especially now that war seems to be much more difficult.

 

[Mozenwrath]

Maybe it would just make it too easy, you could make a map with loads of resources near your starting point and just get all your enemies to trade away their cities. it would be a bit like cheating. I do remeber reading somewhere in some re\preview that the AI was relly difficult during trade negotiations...

 

[WUM]

obviously that preview was right.

btw,
i don´t even like playing on a worldmap for the same reason. It´s like cheating. You know where land is, same for resources i assume. a victory on such a map doesn´t count as a real victory to me!

 

[Mozenwrath]

Playing on the world map is mostly for rookies or people who know they can win on the hardest possible game. For the former it is so they can refine their skills without having to explore or anything and without getting the a**es kicked. For the latter it's so they can change the course of history.

 

[WUM]

don´t need the first, don´t like the last.

 

[flyingcursor]

I can't think of one occasion in history when a nation has bought a city from another nation with a map and some gold, can you?

The Dutch bought Manhatten island for a few beads. Look what that turned into!

 

[WUM]

Well,
Actually they *sold* New Amsterdam to the English, who then renamed it in New York...

but they sold a colony, NOT a city! back then as well as today that makes a huge difference! and so it does in civ3.

I would never sell a loyal city (principal matter), but a colony, well, if they offer the right things... Suppose that´s not possible either in civ3 (doesn´t réally bother me though).

 

[H Tower]

Originally posted by Mozenwrath
I would say the cities for peace thing sounds more realistic. I can't think of one occasion in history when a nation has bought a city from another nation with a map and some gold, can you?

the gadsen purchase by the US from mexico?

 

[Kev]

Well, I have to admit that in a game that I'm plaing now (Warlord), I am well ahead in tech, my culture is such that other cities are flocking to my flag, I have a great set of wonders, and tons of gold.

Yet, I can't get a one-to-one trade. I tried trading furs for spices, and you would think I asked the Aztecs to all fall on their swords. They wanted a tech, 300 gold and the spice for their lousy furs. Hey, not that big a deal to have a bearskin rug or something.

Here's a tought. In this game, I do have a military superiority. However, I'm in a democracy and I didn't want war weariness to be a factor. Plus, my culture continues to build and I'm taking cities via that route. I wonder if I put a quick beating on a city or two, captured some workers, etc would the AI be a bit more open to fair negotiations. It would be a clever way to almost FORCE some military action from players such as myself who are content for some time to just build culture and expand....

I'll have to try this theory out.

 

[Mike C]

Hi, I am new and just go the game yesterday. Played the first game and I have to say while I was impressed with the overall product, I have some frustrations.

I can affirm that the computer tries to rip you off every single freaken time you deal with them. I wanted to swap world maps as mentioned before. Do you know what they wanted? They wanted the Republic and Literacy before they would even come close to accepting.

I find it especially bad if you go to them.

If they come to you and are requesting a deal, you just might not get ripped off that badly. Otherwise, trading in this game is a joke. In fact, I asked to swap rites of passage treaties. They wanted more tech from me.

This is ridiculous.

 

[RallyK]

Map for map: I've traded map for a map and later couldn't do it. The way it works, based on some of the strategies I've read by Firaxian play testers, is a little more complex than just count maps equal.

Several of the playtesters suggested playing as an expansionist Civ because with the scout you can explore faster. With a larger map of the world they said you could enter into negotiations with other Civs with a more valuable bargaining chip. So basically the map with more stuff explored is more valuable. It almost makes too much sense.

As far as trading cities, the guide says that they basically included the ability to trade cities to appease an aggressive neighbor, much like the way CornMaster won his city.

That said few of the deals I've been offered have seemed very fair, but not to the point of ruining the fun or keeping me from trading.

 

[vonork]

About the trade where the offer were a few 12 cities and gold and tec for one 6 cities, is that so surprising. Consider the following: France trading the entire country for Washington - would USA accept that trade? Don't really think so...

Hopefully culture mater in some way here.

 

[Mozenwrath]

Why would the US not accept that trade? I would! Anyways, he was only asking for a measly size 5, not their size 24 capital.

 

[CoolLizy]

The diplomacy was great! The thing you've got to remember about trading world maps, is that all maps are not equal. They may have already explored much of your area and know just about everything you have found, but they know about a large chain of islands in the north-west you have yet to discover.
Of course, you could always hack down a few of their cities and demand they give you their map in return for peace.

 

[Mike C]

Originally posted by CoolLizy
The diplomacy was great! The thing you've got to remember about trading world maps, is that all maps are not equal. They may have already explored much of your area and know just about everything you have found, but they know about a large chain of islands in the north-west you have yet to discover.
Of course, you could always hack down a few of their cities and demand they give you their map in return for peace.

Trust me, it is way beyond just maps. I have had so many "unfair" proposals that I finally stopped bothering with trade.

I mean, they want Republic, Mathematics, AND Literacy for Mysticism?! Get lost...