diplomats and spies

[animepornstar]

it seems like there will not be any diplomats and spies in civ3. i couldn´t find any diplomats nor spies in the tech tree, but there is an espionage tech. neither the civfanatics civ3 info center had any information about them.

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[spycatcher34]

WHAT!<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/eek.gif" border=0><FONT size="-2">you are jokeing arent you?</FONT s> HELP! I OFFICIALLY DECLARE THIS AN EMERGENCY!!<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/eek.gif" border=0> There must be dipheads and spys there the MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE GAME!!!<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/supersaiyan.gif" border=0>

But seriously you must of miss-read. Surely. Right!?<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/confused.gif" border=0>

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Somewhere between war and diplomacy is the realm of the spy

[This message has been edited by spycatcher34 (edited August 16, 2001).]

 

[animepornstar]

taken from the civ3 info center:

<FONT COLOR="Red">Spy</FONT c> missions and other means of destroying city improvements and wonders will reduce the amount of culture generated per turn by your city, but should not affect your borders.

i´m afraid that´s all.

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[Squirrel]

If you're right, pornstar, I think it's a good thing. I always thought it was rediculous with those spys going into cities blowing up factories. This should have been a job for elite forces like paratroopers.

Even more rediculous was the "incite revolt" feature. This is replaced with cultural capturing of cities which is far more realistic.

Since there is a science called Espionage, I am sure there will be other ways of doing sabotage, but by other means than using spies.

 

[ERIKtheRED]

I agree with Squirrel: reductions in espionage are good. I think tech and maps should not be stolen-- its just not the way knowledge spreads around (see Trades Effect on Maps and Science in S&I). Embassies could easlity be established through diplomacy... I think sabotage and other things could be accomplished (if included) by spy missions, generated say 2 per turn.

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"Consumerism is slavery by goods."
"The police are not here to create disorder. The police are here to PRESERVE disorder."
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

 

[Graeme the mad]

I sot of like your idea Erik - but two per turn no - what you could do was build a spy in a city (it would not actually appear) and add to a 'spy hoard' - so when it came to war you could carry out espionage with however many spies you had hoarded (not always succesfully though)

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Perhaps a 'terrorist' like unit will take care of bombings, poisoning water, etc? Diplomats should not be replaced by spies in any case. They're two different units really.

 

[Hoside]

I definitly like the way they are taking this game in terms of spies they need to be less effective and hurt ur cultural value too.

 

[Dearmad]

Erik, you're wrong, that is EXACTLY how some very critical technology has spread in the hitory of the world: it is how the Russians got nucleur power/explosives, and how the Americans got textile mills hundreds of years ago when a single man memorized the factory plans and built one in the colonies, it is how the U.S. got rocketry (thank you germany), how the mouse was "invented" hehe,- it has happened a lot in history- the observation of a technology by an individual and then the replication of the technology elsewhere.

As for the tech tree missing spies and diplos- it is only missing them because the artwork wasn't ready- there are a LAOD of units not in the trees and whoever concluded that the screenshots are finals needs to calm down, they are clearly unfinished with spaces left in for more units/city improvements, and other effects to be added in.

 

[Scrooge]

No spies? This IS DIRE news.

I'm not a spy-fanatic like Spycatcher34 here on this Forum, but I think it is crippling the gameplay of many. As I've said before (don't remember the thread) IMHO, Civ is a game of DIPLOMACY (internal and external) and the infamous spy unit is a TOOL of DIPLOMACY, just like foreign politics (treaties, embargoes) and war/combat (blood).

Being in great fear of foreign spies, I would still welcome <u>expanded</u> espionage options (spy, commando, terrorist) as an added element of diplomacy (read -> GAMEPLAY).

It's just a matter of playing style, some of us play combat, some peace, some espionage (a combination works best - try it). Limiting or crippling any one of those elements equals to limiting or crippling game play for other people. There are many in-game situations (as in real life), which call explicitly for a spies' talent and abilities.

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<FONT face="Comic Sans MS"><FONT size="2">"Duckland must put an end to war before war puts an end to Duckland"
- J.Quack Kennedy</FONT s></FONT f>

[This message has been edited by Scrooge (edited August 18, 2001).]