Discussion Thread about Workers

[Sir Donald III]

Judging what Military and Science have put out so far... we'll need the extra time between TCs.

I would like to discuss general Doctrines as well. About Workers.

The Minister of Science has put forth the idea of possibly sending teams of Workers to other nations to help Pollution Cleanup efforts. That may be worth exploring later on, but as for now I'd like to look at other items.

If we proceed with the Steam Engine track, we'll have Rails by next TC (hopefully).

The MSAV has also reported that units in general are eating too much support. Our 49 Regular Workers contribute to this.

Oh, before I go on, an analysis of our current Worker Status.

Worker Teams:

Kitakinu
#1: 2 Regulars, 1 Zulu. Roading the Viroconium Wastes (Kagemusha Desert). The Zulu Worker should be reassigned to Settlement in former Iroquois Teritory. The others should continue Roads to Grumpypuss.

#2A: 3 Regular, 2 Bab. Roading in the hills near Bentropolis. (Finishes in 1 Turn)
#2B: 2 Regular, 1 Roman.
#2C: 3 Regulars (Finishes current task in 1 Turn)

#3: 21 Regulars, 4 Romans, 3 Babs.

#4: 1 Regular Worker roading a desert near Osgiliath. (Finishes in 2 Turns)

#5: 1 Regular, 2 Romans. (Finishes current task in 2 Turns)


Edo:
#6: 7 Regulars, 4 Romans, 1 Bab. Jungle Duty. (Finishes in 1 Turn)


Hai Rando:
#7: 2 Regular Workers in 2 Spots (Finishes current in 1 & 2 Turns)

#8: 4 Regulars, 1 Roman (Finishes current task in 1 Turn)

#9: 1 Regular (SE) (Finishes Irrigation in 2 Turns)


Eastern Gains:
#10: 1 Iroquois (Roading Pisae) (Finishes in 9 Turns)

#11: 2 Regulars (near Baldur's Gate)

#12: 2 Iros (roading in Catt area, Finishes in 1 Turn)

#13: 1 Iro (irrigating near Sal, Finishes in 7 Turns)


Total:
49 Regulars, 12 Romans, 6 Babylonians, 4 Iroquois so far. (And 1 Zulu to be reassigned.)

Now, I say Reasign the Zulu because, let's face it, we have not gone to war with the Zulu. Now I know we get a free half-speed worker, but it just does not seem right to me to have this guy work his rear off when his nation has done nothing to us that a few Temples didn't fix.

Looking at the chart above, the workers seem to be... scattered. Some teams have 21, some have 1. And we have a mix of nationalities there.

Here is my remedy:
Combine the 12 Roman Workers into 1 team. Fun fact: The base time for a Railroad is 12 Turns. Meaning that such a team can pollish off a Railroad in 1 turn. During the 1st TC, they would make any improvements in the area where they would gather. Once we get Rails, they'll be laying a track a turn.

Combine the 6 Babylonian Slaves into 1 team.

Keep the Iroquois Workers together and have them rebuild their homeland.

Finally, Take 48 of the 49 Regular Workers and divide them into Sectors of 12. These can split and combine as they will so long as the units of 12 maintain their overall cohesion.

Now, this leaves 1 spare worker. The question becomes, should we combine this guy into a city, or just have it do odd jobs.

Further, there's the matter of prioirities: Should these workers:
Mine/Irrigate/Road the Radaii of the cities within their sectors first
Railroad the Productive tiles first
Connect the cities and borders with rails

And how should we deal with pollution? Tackle it as soon as a current project is complete? Or have it eb put in a queue?

Governors (and through them Mayors) have my ear in this, but I'd like to hear what you think.

 

[Provolution]

Add some workers to Kagemusha, Grumpypuss, Yatta and Pisae, in order to accelerate growth of these peripheral and straggling cities, until they are self sufficient.

 

[Chieftess]

I think we should have an "Office of Infrastructure" like we did last game. At this stage of the game, we need to set priorities for cities. (i.e., changing irragation to mines, and vice versa), and trying to get cities to a certain spt (10spt, 15spt, 20spt...).

This should be a Presidential appointed office, that would cover domestic and military (workers and settlers are still in the military screen. ).

The official name of the office should be something like, "Office of Infrastructure and Tile Management". So, if the people wanted war, then the OoIaTM (OITM for short) would see to it that key cities are productive. If we wanted more workers for a worker factory, the OITM would see to it that tiles are irragated and mined in such a way that we get a worker every turn.

This office would also be responsible in setting up a rail net.

 

[Nobody]

would this office be a offical goverment department? (like trade, culture, military ect)

 

[Cyc]

When I get Steam Power, I usually have my Workers increws to connect all the cities. A full single line until all of the major cities and lines out to the perimeter cities are done. Then I worry about building up the individual cites. I also try to keep transport time down and build rail as the Workers move, rather then send them 3 tiles at a time to some far away destination.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

In DG4, there was the Ministry of Finance and Labor - even if we just make it Labor, that would be good enough. People would be able to discuss worker actions better, rather than just having the DP choose. (And CT's ministry looks good too.)

 

[Rik Meleet]

Free the Slaves !!!
Meaning: gift all foreign workers back to the nation they belong to.
We can use our own hand-build workers.

 

[Provolution]

I agree with Rik, an industrial nation does not need to use slave workers.
The honorable MSAV also wants a clean Japanatican reputation.

 

[Sir Donald III]

So long as we're considering a Babylonian War Doctrine, I'd rather not make considerations for Repatriations. Unless you can somehow remove the Babylonian from Nihilon.

As for the Romans... That's 12 Workers. They'd only have 1 City. If you want to bankrupt them, that's the best way.

Already considering to Repatriate the Zulu "Worker", or merge it into a City of ours.

 

[Provolution]

I would love to flood the Roman Gaza Strip with 12 workers and give them sparse United Rations shipments of luxuries, gold and science from time to time. I am curious to see what they will do with those workers. Let this be our Marshall plan.

 

[blackheart]

Either give back these indentured workers or use them to clean up global pollution.

 

[Provolution]

Ok, there seems to be broad support for returning the foreign workers, now someone need to post a poll on which tech we get, we release them. That is the only fair way to do it.

 

[Chieftess]

If we want to return the workers, then we should build more of our own to replace them. Why? Railnet.

 

[Sir Donald III]

I guess this makes me the Last Minister with a Doctrine, given CivGeneral's Diplo Victory Doctrine.

Anyway, at the start of my term, knowing that the primary Worker Job would be Railroads and Pollution, I researched the base time for these jobs. Result: 12 & 24 respectively.

Slaves work at 1 unit/turn, Regular Workers work at 2 units/turn. Replacable Parts doubles the rate, Democracy works at 1.5.

So, currently, it would take 12 Slaves or 6 Workers 1 turn to lay down a rail track on flat land. (2 turns on Hills/Forests and 3 on Mountains/Jungle)

Under Democracy but w/o RP, it would take 8 Slaves or 4 Regulars 1 turn to do that task. With RP but not Demo, 6 and 3. And with the magic combo, 4 and 2.

To clean up Pollution, double the above figures.

Therefore, I am forming teams with the above numbers. Regular Worker teams would have 6 members, Slave Worker Teams would have 12, and be grouped by nation.

Meaning I have potentially 9 National Worker Teams (55), and 1 Roman Team (12!) at this time.

The Babylonian (6) and Iroquois Groups (5) number below these levels, and will be set for general improvements, until such time as they would be repatriated or the technology be fit for a team of their own.

At this time, the Iroquois would be set to work the I-Province until such time as I see fit to release them. The Babylonians would finish terraforming Hai Rando until either they finish, we get Replacable Parts (when they become a "Team",) or we become a Democracy (and they get Repatriated).

For the Romans, I have 2 options.

Under the Integration option, I will maintain this team until such time as we BOTH get Replacable Parts AND are in a Democracy. Upon transfer to a Democracy, (whether we have Parts or not,) I will repatriate 4 Roman Workers (1/3 of the Team, to bring it to Democracy Level) to Lugundum. At such time as BOTH Parts AND Demo occurs, the remaining 8 Romans will be merged into cities under the discression of the Domestic Minister, as Rome with its 1 city cannot support 12 Workers.

If Parts occurs first, then the Roman Team will split into 2 teams, and the Babylonian force will become an "Official" team.

Alternately, these Roman Workers could be an Anti-Pollution force, traversing the World to clean up the messes of others. The possibility of a 1/3rd Repatriation with Democracy remains.

And as for that lone Zulu worker... 20 years before being reunited.


Summary of Repatriation portion of the Doctrine:
Zulu: ASAP! (Already polled.)
Babylonians: All 6 Repatriated soon after Transfer to Democracy.
Iroquois: Status still to be determined, but favor eventual Repatriation. (Not sure when, though... ask me next TC. Or present some viable Poll options.)
Romans (If NOT used as Anti-Pollution): 4 Repatriated upon Transfer to Democracy, Remaining 8 integrated into cities when have Parts AND Under Demo. (If used as Anti-Pollution, then it will be used as Anti-Pollution force. May still Repatriate 4 Workers under this option upon first change to Democracy.)

All Repatriation subsections except for Zulu still subject to Poll upon request.


Summary of the Assignemnt Portion of the Doctrine:
Teams will be formed according to how many Workers (or slaves) it will take to construct a single section of rail on flat land in 1 turn.
Teams may be assigned any job, but their primary focus will be Railroads, Fortresses, and Anti-Pollution Efforts.
Teams may be restructured at any time that the number of unit-turns for a flat rail changes.
Workers not assigned to a team will normally be assigned jobs requiring fewer turns to complete. These workers may be combined into a Team when convienent, or may be subject to Merging and/or Repatriation (if applicable).

 

[Sir Donald III]

And now for the teams.

Again, as stated, Teams should have enough workers so as a Section of Rail on Flat land can finish in exactly 1 turn.

Currently, it would take regulars 6 unit-turns to do this; Slaves take 12 unti-turns.

Currently, I have 8 Regular and 1 Roman Team assembled or nearly so.

4 Teams are in Kitakinu
The Roman team is in Edo
2 Regular teams are in Hai Rando
And the last 2 Teams are in Ita... whatever, and Edo.

The Roman Team is currently roading the area around Hlobane, and will switch to Railways at the earliest convienence.



The first picture, Kitakinu, shows Teams 1-4: Team 1 in red, 2 in Yellow, 3 in Green, and 4 in Blue. Team 4 shall be transfered to Zojoji to set up construction rails there.



The second picture, Hai-Rando, shows Teams 5 (Red) and 6 (Green). The Dark Blue Circle denotes the Babylonian group which will be tasked with regular improvements so that these Teams can busy themselves with rails.



The Third Picture, the east, shows Teams 7 (red) and 8 (Green).

In all 3 pictures, there are Gray circles around some workers. these denote currently independent workers. I may form a 9th team out of 6 of these later, or these all might be tasked with general improvements.

 

[Provolution]

Excellent doctrine SD3, this makes the DG more interesting as some players would come up with options so the focus become DG organization, not only micromanagement and easy duckshot conquests (Embryonism), principal harangues and whining (Pseudo-Idealistic Principalism), Private polling and legal reformism (Abstainism) and finally Ad hoc inconsistent case by case argument brinkmanship (Tunnelvisionism).

I look forward to a more advanced and mature game where we citizens of Japanatica use our creative and organizational skills to make our nation work like a clockwork, looking away from simple single player optimalization dynamism, but to run this DG community like a real civilized place with cooperation chains and integration of policies.

 

[Provolution]

SD3, well....Domestic has no doctrine as of yet, but they DO have a very good fiscal policy AND a great administrator of governors in Zarn. However, DA lacks a long term systemic plan for railroads and various priorities for deciding on government changes, dealing with corruption levels, employing specialists and so on and so on.

 

[Sir Donald III]

I thought Railroads were my Province. After all, "The President shall be tasked with control of worker actions."

Then again, there has been debate as to what "worker allocation" means in Article D Section 1.

 

[Provolution]

Sd3 that is true, but normally domestic had a say there, but I am glad that you hold the reins SD3. I mean that DA should think of a way to specialize provinces for builds of improvements and communicate that with governors.

 

[Ashburnham]

Free the Slaves !!!
Meaning: gift all foreign workers back to the nation they belong to.
We can use our own hand-build workers.

I second that. With the possible exception of Rome, there's not reason to keep the foreign citizens we have working for us a minute longer. I'm sorry if it screws up your worker plans, SD3, but trust me, you'll sleep better at nights knowing you did the right thing.