Do I have any hope left?

[Aaron90495]

Despite the fact that I can absolutely destroy the AI in an Immortal science game (in my last game, the CLOSEST AI was 12 techs behind me when I won), I can't seem to win a culture game on Immortal. I came pretty close as Persia a few days ago (would've won in about 20 turns), but Morocco snagged a space victory before I could get there.

Here's my latest shot at it: I rolled a pretty good start as Brazil on a Standard-sized Small Continents map. I somehow managed to forward-settle both the Netherlands and America without getting DoW'd from either of them, so I cut their expansion off pretty well. The problem is, I amazingly spawned with 5 of the 7 AI's on the same continent as me - this is SMALL continents. Sweden is cut off by some CS's and absolutely wonder-spamming in the corner (he has literally half the wonders), and between getting DoW'd by both Genghis and Bluetooth (who are both south of me), I haven't been able to snag a single important culture wonder (lost Uffizi, Parthenon, Globe, Louvre, etc.). My science isn't what it should be, partially due to being preoccupied by war. And meanwhile, Venice and Portugal have a continent to themselves, and, judging by their respective scores, seem to be city-spamming to their heart's content.

So what went wrong? Did I just get a really bad roll and the game is completely lost, or am I doing something really wrong that I haven't noticed yet? I attached a save, in case that helps. Thanks guys

 

[tomplum68]

I don't think you can go into a game so focused on one victory type.

You can start out gunning for something but especially culture/tourism, if you lose out on some of the wonders its going to be tough sledding. This xpac more than any other though seems to give you a little more slack to change your victory focus.

And as far as Sweden taking half the wonders...that just sucks when one AI starts doing that. He's asking for a whoopin. Go take them.

 

[CountAccountant]

And as far as Sweden taking half the wonders...that just sucks when one AI starts doing that. He's asking for a whoopin. Go take them.

This. While you were distracted, Sweden built your cultural victory for you. Go pick it up, place your hermitage and Great Works there, and send the Swedes a nice thank-you note.

 

[Keirador]

BNW changed the Culture victory from a very peaceful builder strategy to the second-most aggressive strategy in the game behind Domination. Even if you snag all the wonders yourself, at higher levels there's bound to be at least one Civ with enough defensive culture that your tourism will never top them in time. If you go in playing for Culture victory, you can't neglect warmongering.

 

[MarshalN]

What SP trees did you take?

 

[samuelgrigolato]

This. While you were distracted, Sweden built your cultural victory for you. Go pick it up, place your hermitage and Great Works there, and send the Swedes a nice thank-you note.

Maybe I'm just too noob... but that seems to be a very clever insight... kkkkk

Sent from my LG-E425f using Tapatalk 2

 

[samuelgrigolato]

BNW changed the Culture victory from a very peaceful builder strategy to the second-most aggressive strategy in the game behind Domination. Even if you snag all the wonders yourself, at higher levels there's bound to be at least one Civ with enough defensive culture that your tourism will never top them in time. If you go in playing for Culture victory, you can't neglect warmongering.

I'm trying a cultural with Brazil in Emperor difficulty.. I'm almost middle game.. 6% behind tech leader.. got some good wonders... good city spots... so you're saying my 'Pracinhas' will need to have a hard time beating the culture leaders for me... right?

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[Aaron90495]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I was being a little too passive in terms of military, but ultimately I abandoned the game. Sweden pulled up to a 9% tech lead (72 vs. 63) on me, had the Red Fort (so his capital was 93 strength), and had a near-unassailable position in rough terrain and near some ice. Even after researching flight there was simply no way I'd be able to even put a dent in his capital. Plus, I got double-DoW'd by the Netherlands (my game-long friend) and the Mongols, killing my economy.

Next game, though, I'll make sure I take care of any runaway ASAP before it gets to this situation (if possible).

 

[Infantry#14]

If your pick a religion early, you may want to try out religious buildings + sacred sites reformation belief. When you have a wide empire, all those extra tourism may net you the CV.

 

[MarshalN]

Problem with sacred sites is that you really need to be able to get it - if you fail to snatch it and end up with something else, you just invested a lot of resources in something that won't do a lot for you for quite some time. You may also be behind in tech/money.

 

[Aaron90495]

Problem with sacred sites is that you really need to be able to get it - if you fail to snatch it and end up with something else, you just invested a lot of resources in something that won't do a lot for you for quite some time. You may also be behind in tech/money.

And the other problem with going Piety IMO is how relatively weak 3 of the final 4 policies are (assuming you took +1 faith from shrines and temples as the first policy). Unless you manage to get a fantastic religion going, you probably hurt yourself by not going Tradition (or even Liberty). Unless you're Poland, there generally seems to be a little too much risk in going Piety for it to be a reliable strategy.

 

[Halcyan2]

And meanwhile, Venice and Portugal have a continent to themselves, and, judging by their respective scores, seem to be city-spamming to their heart's content.

Somehow I suspect that Venice won't be city spamming any time soon....

 

[kingofsealand]

Yeah the more i play BNW the less i value piety. At this point i find its most redeeming quality the sacred sites reformation belief which the AI LOVES to nab. Anyone else think its odd you can found a religion, enhance it, and reform it in the space of 3 turns? How long did it take modern religions to do the same?

Otherwise piety is an ehhh branch when compared to other available options. Even exploration features more policies that will actually be legitimately useful to most players. Not saying you shouldnt found a religion, you just simply dont need piety to do it. Missing out on the great mosque will be lame but at the same time, you wont be plopping down holy sites with prophets for the completion policy bonus so they can easily do the converting for you.

The biggest drag is missing the reformation belief, I almost feel like this should not be a social policy at all but inherently built in the religion system. Heres an idea, when you adopt an ideology, you are also able to adopt a reformation belief if you have one.

 

[Keirador]

I'm trying a cultural with Brazil in Emperor difficulty.. I'm almost middle game.. 6% behind tech leader.. got some good wonders... good city spots... so you're saying my 'Pracinhas' will need to have a hard time beating the culture leaders for me... right?

Sent from my LG-E425f using Tapatalk 2

You can do a rough projection based on current rates in the Culture Victory screen. When you hover over the "Tourism" and "Culture" bars, it gives you an actual raw number of how many Tourism bits you have on a Civ, and how many Culture bits they have in defense, and that number grows each turn. You can monitor the rate at which you're closing the gap between tourism and culture and project how long it would take for that gap to close to zero. Sure, the rate will change and Great Musicians can make a big difference, but if you're at turn 300 and estimating that you'll close the gap in 600 turns (something that happened to me as Poland: already Influential over everyone else, but India had such a huge culture lead that it would take until turn 900 to overcome it). . . the only way you'll win a culture victory is to knock that civ out of the game entirely (just taking their capital won't do it). If you're a peacermonger at heart and you're not neglecting diplomacy, you can probably get some help to do it.

If, luck of the draw, all the other civs neglected Culture, you'll be fine.

 

[Keirador]

Side note, people keep saying they're 6% behind the tech leader or 9% above the next best tech leader. . . where do you find this information?

 

[samuelgrigolato]

First, thanks for the tips!

Second, on the Demographics screen, the last item is "Literacy". This item is measured as a percent, representing the number of technologies you already have.

Things that you can learn from this data:

* How much you are behind the tech leader;
* How much you are in front of the worse civ;
* How you are doing in relation to the average;

I really don't think there is a way to know how far you are from "the next best tech leader". If I'm wrong, anyone please correct me!!! =D

 

[Keirador]

Is that new to BNW? "Literacy" used to be a reflection of how many of your cities had Libraries, Universities, and Public Schools.

 

[OmniPotent42]

Side note, people keep saying they're 6% behind the tech leader or 9% above the next best tech leader. . . where do you find this information?

Demographics. If you click on the scroll next to the social policy button (or espionage when espionage is available) you'll see a bunch of options. Demographics tells you how well your civilization is doing in multiple areas.

 

[samuelgrigolato]

Is that new to BNW? "Literacy" used to be a reflection of how many of your cities had Libraries, Universities, and Public Schools.

AFAIK the Literacy score ever worked this way (even on Vanilla/G&K), i.e., representing the percent of the tech tree you already know. I may be wrong, but I don't remember ever being able to steal techs when nº 1 on Literacy.

 

[MarshalN]

Um you just need to hover over the civ score and it will tell you how many points each civ has from science. You can work out who is tech leader that way