do you guys make wonders?

[nihil8r]

so then . . . do any of you ever make great wonders? i know that some of you have disparaged the wondermaking in the past. i always follow a strict system of wondermaking. if i am unable to make these wonders, i abandon the game. feedback?

< pyramids >

< great library >

< sun tzu's art of gardening >

- golden age power up -

< leonardo's pizzeria >

< sistine chapel >

i also pay tribute to the goddess moonsinger and send workers out all over the place wihout building a military. they pop the huts and i get a few techs from that. sometimes i get lucky and will get settlers or advanced techs if the goddess is smiling upon the fair germanic peoples. since i learned to do that i have really advanced my beginning game. i used to just go crazy with archers and sack the nearest capital. correction, the nearest irritating neighbor's capital . . . always seems to be russia, england, mongols, zululand, etc, someone beligerant. now though i just give them what they want when they ask for tribute, because i know that when my golden age ends i'll have 40 knights and they'll still have a bunch of archers.

ps- slug

hey guess what i quit my jeorb. yes the one that i used to play civ at when there was nothing to do

since i quit i have played civ every day. and you know what superslug?

i still hate this ****ing game

at least every third start location i keep turns out to be an island -- no exaggeration. there's just something about cows and islands and pangea maps and God hating me. i need a cheat that lets me launch icbms right before i quit each game in 3800 bc when i realize i'm trapped on a tiny island with 8 cows and a goody hut!

 

[Darkness]

Sure, I build wonders, if I can...

Pyramids are the most important wonder for a high scoring game, IMHO...

Leo's and SunTzu's are also nice, for the mass upgrade that comes after the expansion phase... Saves a lot of gold

Great Library I only build to keep it out of the AI's hands on the lower levels, 'cause I can outresearch the AI's by the early middle ages on the levels up to monarch and maybe emperor. Demigod/deity level I can't get it before the AI, so I try to conquer it and get a lot of nice techs for free, Sid appears to be strange in this aspect (just ask SirPleb or Superslug who have reported they have personal experience with this.

Chapel. Don't built it, 'cause I don't built cathedrals anyway.

What I'd like to get in my games, if I can:
As mentioned above:
Pyramids, Sun Tzu's, Leo's, Great Lib.

Bachs: Gotta love 2 extra happy people in each city on the same continent for the rest of the game, especially if you're short on luxuries.

Colossus: Income increase, always nice, though not essential

Lighthouse: When playing archipelago, also not essential

Hanging gardens: Extra happy people. Nice, but not essential

Forbidden palace: with good placement it's nice, although C3C messed it up.

Smiths: Large empire, lotsa marketplaces, so Smiths keeps the costs down.

ToE: 2 free techs...

UN: The AI's are lame ducks (the ones that are still around anyway) but just to be safe.

Cure for cancer/longlivety: extra happy people and extra growth. Nice, but a bit late on the tech tree...

Wall Street and Iron works are also nice

Hope this helps a bit....

 

[superslug]

Originally posted by nihil8r
since i quit i have played civ every day. and you know what superslug?
i still hate this ****ing game

Right now the only thing I hate is India for declaring war on me before I gave them permission to. I have every intention of vaporizing them from my current map whether I continue the game as an HOF attempt or not!

Originally posted by Darkness
(just ask SirPleb or Superslug who have reported they have personal experience with this.

Pulling off a manual construction of the Great Library on Sid is possible as the AI strangely makes Literature a very low priority, almost as if it didn't exist as a tech. However, it still requires very early prebuilding or an SGL. The few times I've snagged the GL on Sid, it was because of an SGL.

In regards to wonders in general, the three I consider currently essential to my Monarch game are the Pyramids, Leonardo's and the Temple of Artemis. On Monarch, I pretty much toss the game if I miss any of the three.

When milking, I definitely construct the UN and Longevity for purposes of avoiding Diplomatic defeat, and score, respectively.

Regarding other wonders, Hoovers is nice, although I think Smith's makes a larger impact for me, as do any happiness generators. I let the AI build them, as I can take them over. If they don't build them, I do it later...

Of course once I move to higher levels, I'll have to narrow my selection of wonders or possibly learn how to do without at all...they can be crutches...

 

[Svar]

For my recent 20 K fastest finish games you want to build them all but the cornerstone of every really quick finish is how fast you finish Shakespeare's Theatre. When you build the Pyramid is also important but I think Shakespeare's is the key. My fastest finish to date was when I finished the Pyramid in something like 1670 BC and Shakespeare's in 630 AD. However my present game should beat that time even though I finished the Pyramid in 925 BC but finished Shakespeare's in 430 AD.

 

[zerksees]

I save wonder building for great leaders. I will build any wonder I can if I have a great leader available. This may be harder to do with C3C because of leader types.

The only early wonder I like to build at deity is Great Library, but I have succeeded without it so I know it is not needed. I think starting location, settler factories and luxuries have a bigger effect on the outcome than wonders.

Happiness wonders would be important too (like JS Bachs), as they would allow more population to be happy at no extra expense. The Oracle expires too fast to be of much use IMO.

For late game getting the UN is essential. I think controlling it is so much easier than trying to control the outcome of the vote. For most HOF high score conquest/milking games this wonder is not needed since the game outcome is decided long before fission is invented.

Obviously I am not going for 20k culture win, where getting wonders would be much more important to succeed.

 

[blindside]

IMO Pyramids and Leonardos are the only ones that matter. I wont abandon games if I dont get them (because I've already spent hours playing it and I don't have as much free time as others seem to have).

Hoover's Dam is also a really great wonder to have. Its the best in the Industrial Age.

 

[Illusion13]

Play an archelipego map... Pyramids, Temple of Artimis, Hoover Dam, and w/e other wonder that affects a continent would automatically be rendered useless...

 

[boogaboo]

I play conquest before I milk good, so on conquest I don't build any wonders.
I might build one if I've got a GL. I alsosometime capture them when I would otherwise raze.

The most helpful ones on conquest (PTW) are the Pyramids and The Great Library.
Pyramids goes without saying, and the great library -
I like to take literacy (as one of the conditions for peace) and then build it.
After that the AI tends to give more cities because it got no techs to give for peace..

 

[superslug]

Originally posted by Svar
For my recent 20 K fastest finish games you want to build them all but the cornerstone of every really quick finish is how fast you finish Shakespeare's Theatre.

This is especially true in C3C I think! Lots of happy people, more culture per turn and a free hospital? I go for this in every 20K game I try...

Originally posted by Illusion13
Play an archelipego map... Pyramids, Temple of Artimis, Hoover Dam, and w/e other wonder that affects a continent would automatically be rendered useless...

I couldn't possibly disagree more! I'm playing an archipelago map as we speak with the Pyramids and ToA. While it's true they won't be applicable to every city on the map, they're helping me expand across a very large continent.

ToA expires at Education anyway, and the Pyramids are 'replacable' by Longevity.

 

[Svar]

Originally posted by superslug

This is especially true in C3C I think! Lots of happy people, more culture per turn and a free aqueduct? I go for this in every 20K game I try...

Shakespeare's gives a free hospital not aqueduct but I'm sure you know that just wrote the wrong thing. That is the real power of Shakespeare's since you can get that much quicker than a hospital and accelerate your hand built wonder production.

 

[superslug]

Oops, typo corrected!

Yeah, all in all Shakespeare's is acceleration. It comes earlier than a hospital and replaces the hospital.

Hospital, hospital, not aqueduct, hospital hospital.

 

[boogaboo]

I hate to spam and I've got no one to correct, but I just want to say one thing :
hospital.

 

[Darkness]

Originally posted by Illusion13
Play an archelipego map... Pyramids, Temple of Artimis, Hoover Dam, and w/e other wonder that affects a continent would automatically be rendered useless...

That depends entirely on the size of the continent the wonder is built on....

 

[a4phantom]

Does the ToA put you behind in the culture wars? I haven't played Conquests yet (with luck, tonight!) but if I understand correctly it creates phantom temples in all your cities, which is very nice but
1. do they produce culture?
2. when they expire at Edu and you have to build new temples, have you lost the old-age culture bonus?

 

[Svar]

Originally posted by a4phantom
Does the ToA put you behind in the culture wars? I haven't played Conquests yet (with luck, tonight!) but if I understand correctly it creates phantom temples in all your cities, which is very nice but
1. do they produce culture?
2. when they expire at Edu and you have to build new temples, have you lost the old-age culture bonus?

1. yes

2. no, you keep everything you gained under ToA.

 

[frostbite]

The only Wonders I build are the Great Library and the U.N, but that's just to make sure that the AI don't get'em. And I don't know about you but I have to controll the U.N vote.

 

[SirPleb]

I seldom build any Ancient wonders.

Pyramids are of course highly desirable but I prefer to ensure that my neighbors have Masonry and then hope one of them builds it for me If they don't, oh well, someone somewhere else has them and I'll take them eventually. At low difficulty levels I think it might be better to build the Pyramids than to wait for someone else to do it.

I only care about Great Library at high difficulty levels, but at those it is hard to build, usually I find I can't (or it wouldn't be worth what it would take.) My current Sid game is an exception, I did build Great Library in it. And it helps a lot of course At Deity sometimes it works well to take the Great Library from whichever opponent builds it.

Although I like Leonardo's, Smith's, Sun Tzu, and Bach's, roughly in that order, and also Great Lighthouse on water maps, I often don't build these. In Conquests I expect I'll seldom build any of them since military leaders can't do the job. I generally take these from other Civs as semi-priority targets.

Industrial and Modern wonders - by the time these are available I usually control the game and can build whichever ones I want, which is most of them (why not? ) In my current Sid game it looks like I'll have to do without the Industrial Age wonders though, not sure how much that is going to hurt.

 

[blindside]

SirPleb you must be the best Civ3 player there is. I am sometimes fighting into the modern age on my monarch and emeperor games but you have your diety, sid games in the bag by the industrial age. Truly amazing.

 

[superslug]

Originally posted by blindside
SirPleb you must be the best Civ3 player there is.

For whatever my opinion's worth, I think he currently is...

 

[Svar]

LOL! Since we are voting SirPleb certainly gets my vote.