Does anyone really use Espionage ??

[NobleLeader]

Does anyone really use Espionage for something else Investigate Cities ?

Every time I try to use Espionage for anything: Steal Technology, Initiate Propaganda, Sabotage, etc., even with safety option --- paying lots of money --- 99% of times I'd failed, and very often they catch my spy...

How can a weak civilization, without Espionage Technology, be so "spy-proof" ?

 

[greenie]

I usually only use the espionage features for spying on cities to gauge defenses if I'm going to attack, or even just to be nosey about how far they have to go on a wonder.

I love using it to try and subvert cities by Propaganda, but unfortunately most of the time I try this, by the time I have the technology and the means via the Intelligence Agency, all Civ's are firmly in Democracy, and those that aren't don't seem to be interested.

Alternative idea - successfully subvert a city surrounded by enemy cities, airlift Infantry and MI, Artillery etc and try to hold it. Not only great fun but it tends to get lots of elites and Leaders. Big drawback is they tend to bomb the crap out of you with bombers so you need plenty of bombers and fighters for interception. Otherwise, a hell of a lot of fun!

 

[Gothmog]

Keep trying NobleLeader, you'll get some. I use Steal Technology later in the game when techs are very expensive anyway. It's good because you don't have to subsidize the AI's research. You can pick an alternate path, then steal tech from someone, and actually take a tech lead!

 

[Angmar]

For me espionage is a key tactice. Mind you 99% of the time it is for spying on cities before / during war. Now and again I do try to flip cities with spies, sabotage production ( wonders in the early stages ). I have stolen a few pieces of technology, but Im always fearful of this

My question, I have never seen a message that says I caught a civ trying to steal my technology. Do they try?

 

[NobleLeader]

Good question...
Probably they always get there !

I think there are lots of things to improve on Civ3 Espionage. On Civ2, although the amount of time handling them, spies were better...

 

[Gothmog]

IMO civ2 spies were a bit too powerful. You could subvert whole civilizations in a few turns, taking cities with all improvements intact and no chance of flips. They were better than Tanks, heck better than sliced bread.

I have never caught a civ stealing my tech, but I have noticed them getting my tech the turn after I do. I have also caught and expelled spies before.

'Gothmog's Rule about spies':
"Never plant a spy unless you are ready to go to war with that civ, that goes for espionage missions too"

 

[Czarrillo]

I've used them to destroy space ship parts being built in a tight space race.

 

[kvarnis_85]

I never steal i tecnology, i sell it for alot of gold!

 

[morkaphi]

Originally posted by Angmar
My question, I have never seen a message that says I caught a civ trying to steal my technology. Do they try?

They do try spy missions, but of course, you only know it when their attempts fail.

Originally posted by Gothmog
... I have also caught and expelled spies before.

We're not talking about Civ II, right? In Civ III, I think all spies get killed if they get caught.

Originally posted by Gothmog
'Gothmog's Rule about spies':
"Never plant a spy unless you are ready to go to war with that civ, that goes for espionage missions too"

Indeed.

 

[Gothmog]

Whoa, I did slip back into Civ2 terminology there didn't I. I guess it's not as far behind me as I thought. I was refering to the 'expose enemy spy' mission, they do plant spies and thus I assume use them. This leads me to mention 'Gothmog's Second Rule about spies'
"Never try to expose an enemy spy unless you are ready to go to war with that civ"

 

[sparty44]

Morkhapi posted that he believes all caught spies die--not so. I had a game where I had spies in all other civs to keep track of spaceship progress. At some point, my advisor comes up and says that my "war plans" had been stolen (although I was not at war with anyone). So I go to espionage and choose "expose spy" option. Next my advisor says that my "sting" operation backfired, that the Babylon spy escaped and somehow exposed my spy in Babylon, prompting them to declare an ill-advised (for them) war. So it seems that exposed spies don't all die. Anyone have a similar experience?

 

[morkaphi]

@ spaty44:

Interesting to know, since I never tried the "expose spy" option.

Maybe I should put it this way, "spies caught before they are successfully planted, die."

 

[cromagnon]

Sparty44: I think what happened is that your expose attempt failed, which means the Babylonian spy is still there (escaped means escaped your clutches, not the country). Your spy in Babylon, on the other hand, is toast. :die:

OT: Besides planting to know the forces of the enemy, I don't do much with spies, as they are too expensive. I have, on one occasion, subverted size 1 city the AI had just planted on a tiny island (and I had no amphibious warfare), and it only cost me 40 gold. So it is useful in some situations.

I've never tried to steal tech on a regular basis (once when I was desparate) because of the cost. But Gothmog's point about the expense of buying techs is well taken; I'll have to reconsider.

Also, keep in mind that having a Communist government makes you more likely to succeed in any spy mission (supposedly). But it's not worth leaving Democracy for that, IMO, as you will never have the cash to do any spy missions.

 

[Ripley]

Originally posted by sparty44
... I go to espionage and choose "expose spy" option. Next my advisor says that my "sting" operation backfired, that the Babylon spy escaped and somehow exposed my spy in Babylon, prompting them to declare an ill-advised (for them) war. So it seems that exposed spies don't all die. Anyone have a similar experience?

Yes. This is normal. You will lose your spy if theirs doesn't die.

 

[JAWiseman]

I have never found espionage useful in my games. It seems pretty easy to predict what is defending each city, and a lot of times I can tell anyway from bombardment (bombers, artillery).

It does seem like any time I tried something I got caught...

 

[kb2tvl]

The mission cost verus the reward is just not there for a spy mission... Asside to instigate a war. =)

 

[Gothmog]

Sorry kb2tvl, but I strongly disagree WRT steal technology later in the game (at Diety that is). Also if you need to find out when an AI will finish a wonder then investigate city is priceless.

Re JAWiseman: It just seems like you get caught every time. Much like it sometimes seems that the RNG is out to get you. Also, there are times when it is very hard to predict what is defending a given city (e.g. are there 3 rifles in there or 7? - when it turns out there were only 2). Bombardment can be a good way to find out though, but once you've committed your bombardment you can't try it on another city.

 

[Bismarck]

Before launching a multi-pronged sneak attack, I'll almost always investigate the first few cities that I'm targeting. Occasionally a city turns out to be surprisingly well-defended, so I'll pick an easier target.

 

[steviejay]

on my Regent game I'm trying to plant spies in my neighbours capitals but it keeps saying the spy has been caught and killed and (insert Civ leader name here) is upset. I can't even get to the point where I can do espionage missions

 

[Knowze Gungk]

IMO, the best thing about spies is the fact that they let you know exactly how many units the AI has and also what kind of units they have & what each of their their cities garrison is. And not only that, it's all free too (except for the cost of the spy of course).

Come on, you can't tell me that that kind of info is usless.