Does it irk anyone else that Triremes and Galleys can't enter oceans?

[ollj]

I would like ancient ships and units in it to get a little damage every turn depending on their distance to land.
To make up for forced repairing breaks give em more speed as long as they have good hp.

 

[Rusty Edge]

I would like ancient ships and units in it to get a little damage every turn depending on their distance to land.
To make up for forced repairing breaks give em more speed as long as they have good hp.

This has merit also.

Nobody would accidentally loose a ship & passengers because it ended a turn a square too far from land. It would allow for the daring player to settle new lands & discover new civs.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

I believed it, even went to see The RA EXPEDITIONS circa 69 0r '70...

Sadly, the Human Genome Project indicates it didn't happen.

On the other hand, the HGP says the Hurons crossed the Atlantic from Europe on an ice shelf...

I saw a program on that too, that some of the original prehistoric settlers came from France in coracles following the Ice Age shelf, and settled in what is now Canada / New England. And the HGP really proves nothing, if say 80 Egyptians somehow did make it across to The Inca region, shared knowledge then got killed or died from disease they had no resistance too, then there wouldn't be any gene traces. It only takes a few educated men or women, maybe even one (legends of Viracocha - a white man with a beard, where did Incas get that idea?).

I still think the jury is out

 

[bardolph]

It's interesting to have ocean squares automatically do damage to Triremes and Galleys, but I prefer the present system. If you can explore ocean without caravels, then what's the incentive to research Optics?

If the stretch of ocean is small (one tile wide, for example), then grab it with culture. This tactic also gives extra incentive for settling coastal cities.

 

[Sebiche]

i still like the bering straight idea

when it comes to such issues of naval units i think their fine

just that catapults left onboard a galley should be allowed to bombard. alexander the great did it, and it would make such island cities easier to capture

 

[Rusty Edge]

I saw a program on that too, that some of the original prehistoric settlers came from France in coracles following the Ice Age shelf, and settled in what is now Canada / New England. And the HGP really proves nothing, if say 80 Egyptians somehow did make it across to The Inca region, shared knowledge then got killed or died from disease they had no resistance too, then there wouldn't be any gene traces. It only takes a few educated men or women, maybe even one (legends of Viracocha - a white man with a beard, where did Incas get that idea?).

I still think the jury is out

Yeah, I agree it doesn't prove there was no contact. They could have sent Eunichs for that matter.

I could cite some other research , but it would only change probabillities, not prove it didn't happen.

And we can simply explain away the legend as a result of time traveling tourists....



I love this game

 

[manu-fan]

I think the way to go would be to produce UUs that replace Triremes and can travel on Oceans for a couple of Civs that did do seafaring expansion early on in real life. Or, even more extreme, cut a land unit for a unique Sea UU for a couple of Civs (so they can't get it as early as Triremems).

Cheers.

 

[bardolph]

The problem with seafaring unique units is that they're highly map-dependent, even more so than resource-based UUs.

 

[ripple01]

I've thought about this issue somewhat regarding a mod I'm working on, and I came to a conclusion the same as Drew, that adding a third type of water square seems to be the best solution. Now I've just got to figure out how to do it.

Thanks,
ripple01

 

[Sebiche]

a good tierreme uu is of course the Queekierrem (is that how its spelled?) the Carthaginian juggernaut that caused fear in the oceans

 

[Instant_Cereal]

I think the way to go would be to produce UUs that replace Triremes and can travel on Oceans for a couple of Civs that did do seafaring expansion early on in real life. Or, even more extreme, cut a land unit for a unique Sea UU for a couple of Civs (so they can't get it as early as Triremems).

Cheers.

You've got to remember Civ IV is built to be multiplayer balanced. Giving a couple civs the ability to go where others cannot on water maps is a death sentence for all who oppose them. Not to mention you've got map styles like Terra.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Yeah, I agree it doesn't prove there was no contact. They could have sent Eunichs for that matter.

I could cite some other research , but it would only change probabillities, not prove it didn't happen.

And we can simply explain away the legend as a result of time traveling tourists....



I love this game

My turn then

If some Egyptian mummies really do have traces of cocaine, then maybe it was the Incas who came to Egypt, brought plants and knowledge, and showed the Egyptians how to build pyramids, and not the other way around.

A leading archeologist who has spent almost his entire life investigating Tiwanaku, was not long ago fired in disgrace for daring to admit that he had reached the conclusion, that from astronomical alignments the site was at least 12000 yrs old...

I love the explanation for the cocaine in the Egyptian mummies (given by Egyptologists of course), since it couldn't possibly come from South America, it must have come from an almost identical plant that once flourished in Egypt (all those high mountains and copious amounts of rainfall in ancient Egypt you see ) which has mysteriously vanished and has no traces of ever having existed (in other words we made it up, because we didn't like the alternative)...which is more likely, ?

Your turn

 

[bardolph]

My turn then

If some Egyptian mummies really do have traces of cocaine, then maybe it was the Incas who came to Egypt, brought plants and knowledge, and showed the Egyptians how to build pyramids, and not the other way around.

A leading archeologist who has spent almost his entire life investigating Tiwanaku, was not long ago fired in disgrace for daring to admit that he had reached the conclusion, that from astronomical alignments the site was at least 12000 yrs old...

I love the explanation for the cocaine in the Egyptian mummies (given by Egyptologists of course), since it couldn't possibly come from South America, it must have come from an almost identical plant that once flourished in Egypt (all those high mountains and copious amounts of rainfall in ancient Egypt you see ) which has mysteriously vanished and has no traces of ever having existed (in other words we made it up, because we didn't like the alternative)...which is more likely, ?

Your turn

Who was the archaeologist in question?

By the way, if you ever get a chance to visit Tiwanaku, do it. It's wicked cool (but they've only excavated a small portion of the site). Some pretty amazing stuff. There is even evidence that they knew how to perform open-skull brain surgery!

 

[KMadCandy]

i like it the way it is, and that the first ocean-faring boats can't carry settlers or military troops. why? because the AI annoys me enough bringing settlers to what i consider "my land" on galleys. i'm quite possessive even tho the game hasn't recognized officially yet that they're my tiles. imagine how much worse it would be if they could do that from farther away, sooner!

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Who was the archaeologist in question?

By the way, if you ever get a chance to visit Tiwanaku, do it. It's wicked cool (but they've only excavated a small portion of the site). Some pretty amazing stuff. There is even evidence that they knew how to perform open-skull brain surgery!

The archaeologist was Oswaldo Rivera, former head of Bolivian Archaelogy..he is on tape as saying (from an interview with Graham Hancock):-

Now the odd thing is that I was quite recently in Bolivia and held a lengthy on-the-record interview with Dr Oswaldo Rivera who was the former Head of Bolivian Archaeology. And what Rivera told me is that his own team's calculations at Tiahuanaco, to his surprise, do tend to support Posnansky's argument - that this site was originally surveyed and set out thousands of years before the date that we thought it was built. And Rivera, unusually amongst academics, is prepared to consider the idea of a much earlier level of civilisation at Tiahuanaco, going back 12,000 years or more, and he points out that we've only excavated about two per cent of that site at present, and we really can't draw firm and final conclusions about Tiahuanaco on the basis of a two per cent excavation......

This was all I could find from a quick netscan...I've read elsewhere since, that he later stated he was now convinced that this date was highly likely. Whether he left voluntarily, or not is open to question, but he was publicly ridiculed for stating this.

 

[Rusty Edge]

My turn then

If some Egyptian mummies really do have traces of cocaine, then maybe it was the Incas who came to Egypt, brought plants and knowledge, and showed the Egyptians how to build pyramids, and not the other way around.

A leading archeologist who has spent almost his entire life investigating Tiwanaku, was not long ago fired in disgrace for daring to admit that he had reached the conclusion, that from astronomical alignments the site was at least 12000 yrs old...

I love the explanation for the cocaine in the Egyptian mummies (given by Egyptologists of course), since it couldn't possibly come from South America, it must have come from an almost identical plant that once flourished in Egypt (all those high mountains and copious amounts of rainfall in ancient Egypt you see ) which has mysteriously vanished and has no traces of ever having existed (in other words we made it up, because we didn't like the alternative)...which is more likely, ?

Your turn

More likely is that there was trade between Africa and South America back when Venezuela was irrigated...

 

[DrewBledsoe]

More likely is that there was trade between Africa and South America back when Venezuela was irrigated...

When roughly was that? (as in date)

 

[bardolph]

More likely is that there was trade between Africa and South America back when Venezuela was irrigated...

...or when the continents were connected!

Actually, Tiwanaku was an entirely different culture than the Incas, and mysteriously died out thousands of years before the Inca empire.

 

[Newbunkle]

I would prefer a hybrid of both systems: You can enter ocean tiles, but you are absolutely guaranteed to sink if you end your turn there.

 

[Rusty Edge]

When roughly was that? (as in date)

I have no recollection, or even if they established a time.

I think it was a satellite photo, or deep radar from the space shuttle image.

I think I saw that on tv or a magazine in conjunction with a "Where was Atlantis ?" theory.