Dragoons, Arquebusiers, Longships, and Zeppelins

[Teabeard]

I'd like to see these units added to the game, in addition to the units already in Civ 3.

As it is now knights upgrade to modern cavalry and I don't think that's right. There needs to be a unit squeezed in between because the jump from knight to cavalry is a huge jump. Dragoons are the answer. They should be knights with an extra movement point because they have no armor, and a better attack rating.

Arquebusiers should be added as the very first gunpowder unit. If you look at the graphic for the musketman in Civ3 THAT is an Arquebusier, not a musketman. A musketman is the kind of soldier in the American revolutionary war era.

Galleys are a unit which seems to be around forever. Can't we squeeze in the longship between it and Caravel? You know, I am really surprised the longship is not the Viking UU, maybe in Civ 4 civs will have multiple UUs and the vikings can have a longship too? But anyway, something needs to be added between galleys and caravels. If not longships then how about Triremes?

Zeppelins would be very fun. They would work like bombers but would be available for use with combustion instead of flight (which makes them obsolete). Maybe they could hover over enemy territory and be used for reconaissance as well?

These are just some units I'd like to see added.

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

You're right about the current musketman, he represents the VERY first gunpowder warriors, and covers a span of almost 400 years, whereas the rifleman maybe covers 40, until you hit WWI style infantry. In civ2 you went right to musketeers, with an 18th century style graphic.

I would like to see an interim ship too. Fundamental problem is there are too few techs in the tree for adding all this stuff. I tried adding more ships to get more of an Age of Sail effect and you end up with a new ship to build/upgrade to every few turns, bleah! Not as much fun as you'd think.

Zeppelins, hmmm. IRL their combat use was very limited, maybe make them a pure recon unit, can hover over enemy territory and see 3 squares in all directions. Absolutely vulnerable to grapeshot from cannon/artillery, if it gets shelled by one, it always dies. Might be useful, if it came several techs before Flight. Need to rename Flight to Powered Flight.

 

[KabeDerlin]

If you get too many units though then there's no point in ever building anything since in a few turns it'll become obsolete. This was the problem with Civ: CTP

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

Well, in CTP you couldn't upgrade them, a serious problem. Here with a good upgrade chain it might make a little more sense.

Teabeard is right about the ship at least, what would make a good ship available at the start of the Middle Ages, before you get to Caravels? Should still be coastal only, same speed (no bonus for attempts at ocean crossing), maybe hauls an extra unit, better attack/defense.

Dragoons: nice intermediate unit, but any real use? Not really. Even Cavalry has a pretty limited lifespan, coming where it does.

It would be nice to see more Age of Sail ships, for example, there is a very nice Ship Of the Line available, and a nice clipper now, the Iron Frigate, Galleass, etc., but it's very hard to squeeze all this stuff in on an epic game tech tree.

 

[Teabeard]

We could get more use out of the units by making there be more turns. Some of us like longer games, you know?

 

[rhialto]

I think the tech tree is too shallow anyway. When you consider the length of a game turn in years, we should be discovering something every few turns anyway, even if it is only an atmosphere tech. Because civ4 units will be upgradeable, the ctp problem of a unit only having a few turns of relevancy is avoided.

Anyhow, regarding teh units in this thread...

Dragoons - definitely put these back in. In fact, do something like what the rar mod has done with horses.

Arquebusiers - again, yes please.

Longships - keep this as a Viking unit. Historically, galleys, especially triremes were used in warfare right into the 16th century. The galleas is the mediterranean stepping stone between the galley and caravels anyway. But sea units need to be revised, and a whole model for making sea units worthwhile needs to be created.

Zeppelins - not so sure on this one.

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

I agree Teabeard, I would like more turns also, and you would need more techs for everything, maybe each tech could cost a bit less. DyP is a nice example of how to fit more such stuff in, though it looks awfully cramped on the SA screen. Maybe need some more eras...

Naval model DEFINITELY needs redoing, sea battles just bite in Civ 3. Need to model the devastating effects of bombardment via AEGIS systems and such in the modern era, for one, thing, as it is, the Iowa and Missouri reign supreme to game's end now.

Rhialto, got any links to the galleass history? Maybe I'll add it in with Engineering or something. Longship seems too Viking specific to me, designed for rough North Sea weather.

 

[Teabeard]

The Naval units seem very Euro-centric, specifically mediterranean centric. What kinds of ships were used in other areas of the world?


Galleys were used from the time of ancient greece to the 1600s, so perhaps there should be several different kinds of galleys? I think the galley unit should be split into several, maybe war galley and trireme or whatever...