Economic Victory Post 1.2.5

Resipsa

Emperor
Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Messages
1,000
Greetings, I'm a big fan of the Economic Victory Condition in CIV 7 and I'd like to share some thoughts. I've played roughly 10 games post patch Deity Continents Plus Small Map Size with regrouping Augustus/Catherine/Napoleon(I wanted to try the changes out) and different combinations of civs all trying to get a Fast Econ Victory. I recently had a 41 turn Modern era finish and post patch on Deity using Augustus -Carthage, Spain, Mughal. There are no Wonders that are necessary, but I do try and build Tomb of Askia if available.

Antiquity Age Mementos +1 Military Attribute(to get to +1 settlement/+1Settlement but %50 conversion cost) with this set-up you should be able to settle 10-11 settlements in Antiquity but otherwise progress the era as the map dictates with a focus on unlocking settlement increases as quickly as possible. I grow my towns until crisis era and then convert to trade route towns, food towns and mining towns. Most of your settlements should be on coasts so you can complete your Cothon for +2 resource slots in your eventual factory towns (Some Cothon Towns cant be converted to Factory towns because you wont have a factory resource). The attributes at completion of Antiquity should move you down the left side of the Economic tree with a slight detour for %15 reduce cost to eventually get +1 resource slots in towns, two points in diplomacy for reduced cost to befriend independent powers, move down the right side of Science to eventually get the +2 bonus to specialists in your +3 Cities in Modern Era. After you spend two points on increased settlement size go down the lefthand side of Expansion with a slight detour to the middle for the bonus to town growth.

Exploration Age Change Mementos to Increased Gold per trade route/ and +2 food per settlement per age. I like Spain for Christopher Columbus, their decrease conversion cost for cities, faster treasure ship movement, and increased combat effectiveness in distant lands but have tried Chola, Songhai, and Inca post patch. At the start I'll focus my mining towns and let my farm towns grow a bit as I'm cash starved at the beginning of the era. I buy a Cog to start searching the otherside of the map along with the one you're given at the start and a merchant for each civ on my continent. Research Cartography and rush buy your wharf in Carthage and start buying Conquistadors until you get Christopher Columbus while you use your production on Temple +Missionary. After researching Cartography you should Beeline Education while using your influence to increase trade route capacity. Once education is unlocked switch your food towns over to start pumping growth into Carthage and your Distant Land Cities.

Once you discover your treasure resources you should start spamming Settlers to those locations as quickly as possible. Once you unlock Universities and those towns are roughly 7 population you should start converting them as gold allows and buy Universities in them. Once you get to around 20 settlements and your distant lands have been converted to cities you should be near the end of the Exploration as your paths will all be near completion. Try and drive Future Tech to cut your time down in the Modern Era. You want to get your Gold Age Universities your +2 Science per Specialist and + Resources in Towns

Modern era -Keep Mementos I chose Mughal but I've also used England and Japan and I'll be trying America next. Mughal is interesting; I like their Unique settler as it can help you obtain the last few factory resources on the map. The Gold that you get from them is insane BUT it increases the time to Mass Production. From the start you want to convert two of your distant land towns into cities buy a merchant for every civ and start beelining Mass Production (I've tried getting Schools first and it increases your time) Use your influence at first if you can get two commerce civs first one should be unique resource nickel for 10% increase in science and gold and the second should be +1 resource slots for factories. If you can only get one take the factory resource bonus. Kill the rest of the independent powers as you need to start using all of your influence to increase your trade route capacity and get as many factory resources as possible while your gold buy Ports and railways in your factory towns.

Once you unlock Mass Production you'll need to gold buy your factory in your capital as well as all your factory towns. You need around 52 factory resources once Mass Production hits so that if another Civ loses 1 or 2 it doesn't slow your victory down I haven't been able to increase factory resources past 55 at the start of mass production so its going to take about 10 turns to accumulate the 500 necessary. Once you unlock Mass production I try and get to Opera houses and start gold buying them in case I need the influence with the world banker.

Does anyone have advise for cutting this time down? It seems if I increase science some way by going Japan I'm lacking in influence or gold or in factory resources so the time to finish is roughly the same.
 
Cool thread! Couple thoughts: I think all fast victory attempts should be played on continuity (which adds depth to late age decision making) and need to count the sum of all turns across the ages (aligned with GotM) vs just the modern age turn count. If you measure "fast" this way, it will change your strategy quite a bit in antiquity + exploration. From the science thread, we see getting sub-100 in antiquity a stretch without sacrificing setup for exploration which is essential to getting close to 50 turns in exploration which needs the econ legacy path. Not sure on turns for modern for this VC but I'd guess cutting your 41 about in half is possible depending on the RNG of which factory resources you start the age with + get access to via trading partners. You're also limiting yourself with a small map that's reducing potential trade partners.
 
You should check the Game of the Month 10 threads in that forum for an example of a fast Economic victory challenge on immortal with Catherine leading Greece->Norman->Russia.

I think a fast economic victory plays mostly like a fast science victory for Antiquity and Exploration, with some small differences:
- The +resources wonders are stronger, Tomb of Askia and Great Bazaar (with the DLC) should be easy to get in Explo, Colossus and Monk's Mound in Antiquity are harder to get on higher difficulty level (unless playing Mississippians for the latter). On higher difficulties you can of course just try to capture the AI cities that have those wonders.
- Eliminating rival Civs has more value because not only does it shorten the age, you also save 2 turns in Modern from one less capital for the banker to visit.
- You can also try to prioritize resources that will become factory resources: cotton, kaolin, tin in Antiquity; cocoa and tea in Exploration. This is not so important since you can conquer rival settlements or trade with them, but these are above-average resources in their own right anyway.

Civs/leaders/attributes:
- I think the "mandatory" attribute points you need by the start of modern are 4 in Expansionist (to reach +15/+30% yields in towns) and 5 in Economic (to reach +15% gold towards purchases and +1 resource in towns). To reach +1/+2 resources in cities you'd need 8 points in Economic, which is tougher unless you really focus on picking an Economic leader and Economic Civs.
- I haven't tried Augustus / Carthage mostly because I have been unsuccessful to get fast Antiquity times with the 1-city limitation, gold scaling is a bit slow in Antiquity to buy many of their UQ and UU. I think Xerxes the Achaemenid is a very strong economic leader and Civs like Aksum, Han or Mississippi can synergize well with his ability. In Exploration I think Ming is a reasonable option because of the scientific and economic attributes.

Some thoughts about Modern:

- You just want to rush Mass Production. Is Academics for Oxford worth it? Let's do the math in the next post.

- Pouring influence into a science city-state to get a shot at a useful free tech is fine though, since there isn't really an opportunity cost, the only mandatory city-state bonus I would say is +1 resource from an economic city-state, but you should have plenty of influence.

- Maybe no city other than the capital? With the expansionist bonus on yields in towns and the economic discount on purchasing, 1 production in a city is worth closer to 3 gold from towns instead of 4. Maybe a good city can create about 2000 production before having a factory (100 per turn for 20 turns), saving 4000 gold. But then, the factory itself would have been half cost if it were a factory town instead (reducing savings to somewhere around 2500 gold or less), then every building costs 10% more, and you will purchase more than 25000 worth of buildings in modern.

- Ideally you want to convert all your towns to factory towns or mining towns at the beginning, so it's good to know how many factory towns you want. Often we end up with something like 45-50 resources, so based on resource bonuses (don't forget +1 from factory town itself and you can get +1 from an economic city-state bonus in modern), decide how many factory towns you need. Generally you don't want any in distant lands, since distant land mining towns give more gold, and they would need a port to get a factory. Possible exception is if they have a good wonder for +resources.

- Figuring out trade connections and roads/railroads is a pain on the default interface, I recommend mods that show which city connections (I know TCS Improved Plot Tooltip does this) and also Map Trix for roads/railroads overlay lens. Remember you need a rail station in your capital (I think it needs to be on/adjacent to a road) and in settlements connected to your capital before building a factory in those settlements.

- Cost to found bank in a capital is 3000 gold and 240 influence at neutral and scales with relationship and apparently economic legacy points, although it didn't seem the latter discount applied when I tried it. As for the relationship, it is almost free at helpful/allied (5 influence and around 60 gold), and I'm not sure it increases at unfriendly/hostile since at least one unfriendly AI still cost 3000 gold and 240 influence last time I tried.
 
Here's the math on Oxford rolls (using science costs from deity / normal speed). The annoying thing is that the 2nd "roll" takes into account which tech was discovered in the 1st roll, so you could get both an irrelevant tech and its own mastery.

Finish it for 2 tries at getting Mass Production after getting the 2 prereqs and steam engine mastery:
- MP 1st roll (1/3)
- Elec 1st, MP 2nd roll (1/9)
- Urban 1st, MP 2nd (1/12) (1/4 on 2nd roll because flight is now in the mix)
Total: 53% (19/36)

Without steam engine mastery researched:
- MP 1st roll (1/4)
- Elec 1st and MP second (1/16)
- Urban 1st, MP second (1/20)
- SE mastery 1st, MP second (1/12)
Total: 45% (107/240)

In the 2nd scenario, the average payoff is 45% of a 3900 beaker tech, or about 1750, less than the cost of Acadmics (1820). The small increase in odds from pre-researching Steam Engine mastery is also not worth it.

What if you can finish Oxford just after the first tech tier (SE mastery not researched)?

- Combustion and Industrialization: 1/25
- Comb or Industr, then something else: 8/25
- Elec or Urban, then Comb or Industr: 4/25
- SE mastery, then Comb or Industr: 1/10
Total: 4% x 2 techs, 58% x 1 tech., average payoff is 66% of a 3152 beaker tech or 2080.

This time the payoff is slightly above the cost of Academics, but less than a turn saved on science, not counting the opportunity costs of those Oxford hammers on getting the economic buildings up faster.
 
Back
Top Bottom