Effect of ideologies

[EricTheGreat12]

After listening to all of this info, I have been wondering: Will ideologies have the same diplomatic effects like in G&K or will it be taken more seriously ?

 

[Bakspatel]

Well, yeah. There's been a bunch of info around concerning ideologies. Like making your ideology so grand that it could force other players to adopt yours or accept the consequences of a rebelling population.

 

[PhilBowles]

Well, yeah. There's been a bunch of info around concerning ideologies. Like making your ideology so grand that it could force other players to adopt yours or accept the consequences of a rebelling population.

The thing no one seems to have touched on with this is that it seems to promote a playstyle where players actively choose a different ideology from the civs around them, and so gain game benefits, when surely the point of having an ideology mechanic originally was to emphasise similarities between civs that share an ideology.

 

[EEE_BOY]

In higher difficulties, adopting the same ideology as your close neighbour may be a must in order to play peacefully.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The thing no one seems to have touched on with this is that it seems to promote a playstyle where players actively choose a different ideology from the civs around them, and so gain game benefits, when surely the point of having an ideology mechanic originally was to emphasise similarities between civs that share an ideology.

Game benefits from 'same ideology'

Freedom tenet: economic union
Knowledge of their votes without a diplomat
They cause you no unhappiness

 

[Seek]

The thing no one seems to have touched on with this is that it seems to promote a playstyle where players actively choose a different ideology from the civs around them, and so gain game benefits, when surely the point of having an ideology mechanic originally was to emphasise similarities between civs that share an ideology.

Choosing a different ideology is only incentivized for early adopters, who get the free tenet(s).* If those benefits aren't available, the best choice might often be going with your closest ally's ideology, it's hard to judge without playing a few games.

There are probably as many (if not more) reasons to adopt your allies' ideology, as Krikkit's list illustrates. To said list I'd also add:

- Diplomatic bonus (with AI players at least)
- The victory you're going for doesn't have any bonuses in the ideology or ideologies where there are early adopter bonuses available
- Cultural Revolution: +34% tourism to other Order civs

It should make for a tough decision in many games!



*As a side note, on a standard map that means only two civs will not get a free tenet (assuming even distribution of ideology choices) which is why I dislike that the second adopter gets the free tenet - it should only be two free tenets for the first adopter. We'll see how it plays out, perhaps that was tested and led to too much homogeneity (eg, one big blob of Order and two outlier civs who chose Freedom and Autocracy), but that's my first impression.

 

[dr.skeletor]

@Seek, I would agree that it's there to promote diversity otherwise, like you said, there would be too many benefits to bandwagon onto the existing ideology than to start a new one. Now that you mention that only 2 civs on standard size don't get a free ideology it sounds kind of weird, but since almost everyone is getting it, it does even out play some. To me the disparity is worse on large or huge when half or more of the civs don't get a free one.

Like you said, though, it will hard to be know before we play. To answer to OP, it seems ideologies were reworked heavily to better work with the new Cultural Victory and the new World Congress and factor greatly into both. They also are part of the "city flipping" mechanic with tourism (only cities of an opposing ideology flip to you).

 

[Holmium]

And don't forget that you can only build certain world wonders if you have adopted a specific ideology.

If you adopted Order you may build The Kremlin, if you've adopted Freedom you can construct The Statue of Liberty (I wouldn't accept any other) and for Autocracy Civilizations it's possible to make the.... ehrmm .... actually I could need some explaination about the last Ideology Wonder.

To me it sounded like Ed Beach said that Autocracy nations can construct the "Kreuwl Beach Resort" (???). But, I think I missheard him on that one. "Kreuwler Beach Resort", I imagine if it ever existed to be a nazi-german super-luxurious summer vacation resort where only those truly "pure-racial" would have access to.

Could some one tell me what Mr. Beach actually said the actual name of the wonder, and if it would (to my surprise) be the case that there ever was an "Autocratic Beach Resort- World Wonder" please tell me it´s name so that I can Wikipedia* it.

(*Wikipedia is an actual, existing, non-mad up noun that I'm the first to ever use.)

 

[Glassmage]

Prora. Swedes.....

 

[Arachnofiend]

Prora is easily the least impressive wonder in the game, and it's a real shame that they went with that when there's a truly beautiful achievement of fascist architecture in Spain.

 

[God of Kings]

Could some one tell me what Mr. Beach actually said the actual name of the wonder, and if it would (to my surprise) be the case that there ever was an "Autocratic Beach Resort- World Wonder" please tell me it´s name so that I can Wikipedia* it.

(*Wikipedia is an actual, existing, non-mad up noun that I'm the first to ever use.)

I thought "to wiki" is the verb.

 

[Holmium]

Prora is easily the least impressive wonder in the game, and it's a real shame that they went with that when there's a truly beautiful achievement of fascist architecture in Spain.

I don't think this Valle de los Caídos would be fit to be included as a world wonder i Civ V. Even though it's a grand monument I think the reason they didn't pick the "Valle" as the Autocracy wonder is because it is a catholic religious monument (the Ideology Wonders should be focused on ideology, not religion) and because it's a bit controversially for Spaniards.

And if you really think the Prora Beach Resort is undeserving or lame you could always imagine your civilization doing a better job than the Nazi-Germans did. I think there's something extremely peculiar about about building the greatest, most awesome holiday resort the world has ever seen!

 

[JokerJace]

Prora is easily the least impressive wonder in the game, and it's a real shame that they went with that when there's a truly beautiful achievement of fascist architecture in Spain.

Maybe you think so because all the available footage shows the strongly weathered, depopulated state of the complex? With dark clouds on top of that.

 

[Ll1442]

Game benefits from 'same ideology'

Freedom tenet: economic union
Knowledge of their votes without a diplomat
They cause you no unhappiness

is it only the Freedom ideology that has "knowledge of their votes without diplomat"
or does that count within each group with the same ideology?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I think he meant that bonuses are as follows

A Freedom Tenet : Economic Union (+3 Gold from all your trade routes with other civilizations following the Freedom Ideology)
Knowledge of their votes without a diplomat
They cause no unhappiness.
I believe Order and Autocracy also recieves some kind of bonuses with players or similiar ideology.