EffectsSavedGames property in ModBrowser?

[Blkbird]

Where in the ModBrowser do I see the EffectsSavedGames property of each mod? Or do I have to look into the .modinfo sourcecode of each mod?

Also, why are mods like CiVUP and InfoAddict marked as EffectsSavedGames in the first place?

Moderator Action: Moved to C&C.

 

[DonQuiche]

You can click a mod to see its description. On the top of this window there is a "affects savegames: yes/no".

 

[Blkbird]

Also, if I have a non-modded savegame, is there a way to play it further with CiVUP, InfoAddict and other UI mods?

What would happen if I hack the .modinfo file of both mods and change EffectsSavedGames to 0, and then load that savegame?

 

[DonQuiche]

Afaik this setting only makes civ5 store this mod GUID in the savegame so that:
* If the mod is disabled and you load a savegame created with this mod, civ5 will refuse and will tell you that one mod is missing (let's call that a "unmodding").
* If the mod is enabled and you load a savegame created without this mod, civ5 will silently disable all mods and load this savegame (let's call that a "late modding").
* But this flag could also have another consequence: to allow mods to store data in the savegames. It's just an hypothesis.

Now you have to understand that mods who turn this setting on do so for good reasons.
* CivUp, for example, is not just an UI mod, it changes the gameplay also, it may change things like unit costs, remove some policies, add new ones, etc. So a savegame created with this mod may reference things that only exist in CivUp while a savegame created without it won't store some data civup may need (pretty bad example: imagine if a policy is only available if you were the first one to build a wonder: civ5 does not store that info, so CivUp would have to store it by itself the first time a wonder is built).
* InfoAddict has nice little timelines, which means it had, on every turn, to store those data. While "unmodding" would make sense, the "late modding" would cause InfoAddict to lack the data for the first years.
* However most UI mods do not affect savegames. IGE for example. Those who do typically change the gameplay.

Now, would it be possible to late-mod a savegame? Well, hardly, you would have to edit the file by hand and depending on the mod you could then find yourself with many bugs to deal with.

 

[Blkbird]

Thanks a lot for that comprehensive answer!

 

[whoward69]

In general, any mod that changes/adds to the database via XML or SQL should have the flag set, and any "UI Only" mod can leave the flag unset. Obviously there are lots of shades of gray in-between those two cases!

Take some examples.

I create a mod that adds a Super-Carrier (very late game unit) and don't set the flag. I will be able to load the game with or without the mod enabled right up until I create a Super-Carrier. After that, if I load the saved game without the mod enabled Civ5 will crash on loading - no warnings, just a crash. This is because it is trying to find the description for a unit that exists in the save but has no corresponding database entry.

Now lets add an early unit spearman alternative - again without the flag set. I start a game, build a spearman replacement, save the game, disable the spearman mod, enable the super-carrier and reload the save game. If I'm lucky the spearman will be a super-carrier, but most likely the game will just crash - this is because the Unit ID that was the spearman is now the Super-Carrier (they are just allocated sequentially)

Even with the flags set there are issues. I start a game with both mods enabled, build a spearman and save the game. I now want to test another mod so disable both Spearman and Super-Carrier mods and run my tests. When I've finished my testing I re-enable both the Spearman and Super-Carrier mods and re-load my save game - I now have one of three outcomes, the spearman is a spearman, the spearman is a super-carrier, or the game just crashes. This is because the load order of the mods is not predictable.

So any mod that adds to a "primary" database table (one that includes an <ID> column) must have that flag set, but it also affects other "secondary" tables. Add a new promotion, give that promotion to a unit, disable the mod with that promotion and load the saved game and crash - as your unit has a none existant promotion.

Moral of the story, unless you really know what the implications are 1) don't edit those flags and 2) don't change/add/remove/update mods in the middle of a game - wait until you've finished it!