Emperor late game v Genghis Khan

[Deathwing]

Finally figured out how to do mid-game Emperor (marathon, fractal). Currently stuck in late-game where in about 10 turns Genghis Khan is due to declare war on me, shortly followed by the rest of the world.

I am friendly with most other civs including Genghis, yet none can be persuaded to declare war elsewhere or make a defensive pact ("we just don't like you enough").

Genghis has 2 moderately powerful vassals and a weak vassal. His best unit is cuirassier and he has around 50 of these plus probably an equal number of longbowmen on defence.

I have 1 weak vassal and 1 pathetic vassal. My best unit is infantry, however I am outnumbered around 10 to 1 in units by Genghis. Current civs are mostly free plus Slavery, so I can buy and whip. Gold, resource and tech positions are very good.

Any suggestions how I stop Genghis from declaring war, or at least stop the rest of the world from doing so? They won't be persuaded to seek war elsewhere or help. Failing that, how best to defend? I've found I can't produce fast enough to hold Genghis off. I might try going Nationhood next time early and drafting.

Btw, why on earth do all the "friendly" civs declare on me??

 

[Cam_H]

I thought the only leader capable of declaring at Friendly is Catherine, and she'll only do so if bribed (?).

 

[Gumbolt]

Almost impossible to answer when you dont have a save posted.

Sometimes if you are at war with an AI and it becomes another Ai vassel this will lead to war. Could be bribes, Could be they were planning war before you reached friendly or because you dropped out of friendly for a turn or so. Either way a save would explain it more.


It could also be down to religion, bribes or maybe even the AP voting war against you.

 

[Deathwing]

Good suggestion, I'll post the save when I get home from work.

Another question that had me wondering is the advantages and disadvantages of vassal vs destroying the civilization. I usually stop at their last city and make them capitulate, but am I better off just wiping them out?

 

[Gumbolt]

Good suggestion, I'll post the save when I get home from work.

Another question that had me wondering is the advantages and disadvantages of vassal vs destroying the civilization. I usually stop at their last city and make them capitulate, but am I better off just wiping them out?

Leaving one city leaves a lot of cities wanting to join their homeland. That can be quite annoying with city revolts and 2-4 unhappiness per city of theirs you captured. Remember Ai land only counts half of the % of land to conquest. Also you get -1 diplo point with other Ai for having vassels.

Plus side of capitulation is you can take out 1-2 cities of an AI and they may fold and become your vassel. Downside if you probably need to make all the Ai to get 60% of land to win. Sometimes its better to vassel them instead of them becoming another Ai vassel.

Personally leaving one city seems a bit pointless unless its on another island hard to reach.

 

[Deathwing]

Ok so I'm best off killing the AI rather than vassalling.

Back at home but where are the saved game files?? I'm running the BTS expansion if that makes a difference.

 

[Deathwing]

Finally found the savegames folder (only via the shortcut icon!) and uploaded it.

So yeah Genghis due to attack in around 10-12 turns, followed about 10-12 turns later by the rest of the world. I can kinda hold off the others by requesting 1 gold per turn (for a 10-turn peace) but even Genghis and his vassal cohorts can cause serious damage. Ideas how to resolve the situation much appreciated!

Thanks

 

[Gumbolt]

Yes GK is in WHEOOHRN mode. As you have suggested this is probably directed at you. You are already at war with 2 other Ai and you have barely 1-2 units per city and I can't find your stack anywhere that is going to defend your empire. Do you have a stack of units somewhere? Most Ai apart from Celts seem pretty annoyed at you. Simple question is why have you left your defences so weak?

I am guessing the Mongols/French and other Ai will have stacks of 20-30 units lurking somewhere. On a larger map you do need to cover your back.

 

[Gumbolt]

Your main defensive tools are:

1. US civic. Set science to 0% and buy units on second turn of production.
2. Nationhood civic. Draft 4-5 infantry a turn. You will need a stack of 30-40 of these to just hold off Mongols.
3. Take spare units from cities in back of empire and bring to Mongol border. Holding off everyone will be almost impossible. Sit back and defend till you can build up defences.
4. I assume you built Globe theatre for a drafting city?

Make sure to scout out Mongol stack as it approaches your borders. Beware of the other Ai with big stacks. If you can bribe Celts into war with Mongols. Not sure if this is possible.

 

[UWHabs]

Leaving one city leaves a lot of cities wanting to join their homeland. That can be quite annoying with city revolts and 2-4 unhappiness per city of theirs you captured. Remember Ai land only counts half of the % of land to conquest. Also you get -1 diplo point with other Ai for having vassels.

Plus side of capitulation is you can take out 1-2 cities of an AI and they may fold and become your vassel. Downside if you probably need to make all the Ai to get 60% of land to win. Sometimes its better to vassel them instead of them becoming another Ai vassel.

Personally leaving one city seems a bit pointless unless its on another island hard to reach.

Biggest downside of vassals is say you're friendly with your neighbour, GK. If you capitulate someone else who Genghis hates (annoyed), Genghis now becomes (friendly + annoyed)/2 with you. So even if you're at +15 and friendly, he can now declare war on you since combined he's only Cautious or pleased with you as a whole, not even factoring in the -1 for having a vassal.

Otherwise, nationhood is usually the best bet to defend. So if he has 50 cuirassiers, you can pile up 30 infantry in 10 turns, which should be enough to fight off his stack. If you have infantry and nobody else has rifles, no way you shouldn't win.

 

[Gumbolt]

This is probably why GK is declaring at pleased because of the 2 vassels.

 

[Deathwing]

Ahhh I see, so I made a serious mistake capitulating the vassals when I could have killed them.

My stack basically died against the vikings when they declared. I can make peace with them, think I can keep most at peace so I'm just fighting mongols and vassals.

As you say Nationhood and drafting looks like the sensible option. I shall give it a try, thanks!

 

[Gumbolt]

Ahhh I see, so I made a serious mistake capitulating the vassals when I could have killed them.

My stack basically died against the vikings when they declared. I can make peace with them, think I can keep most at peace so I'm just fighting mongols and vassals.

As you say Nationhood and drafting looks like the sensible option. I shall give it a try, thanks!

With some of the nasty neighbours you have you need to keep a decent stack and one which will survive an AI assault. A good stack will 90% survive the AI stack. The tip is to ambush the stack on your terms blitzing it with cannons/artilery to weaken it first.