endgame without magic?

[slowcar]

my favorite civ at the moment are the hippus. i play on immortal, standard or huge fractal map.
in the beginning i can play a wonderful mundane game, using CR axemen and catapults.

in the endgame i have one or two heroes who can win the game alone (if they have some protection) as they get 100% against nearly every civ-defense. To get my other troops being useful i need to have some magic-using unit like an archmage or, in case of order/veil, high priest. Without their -40% spells you can't beat all the units the AI tends to have in their cities.

cannons really come late in the game, are not nearly as robust as catapults with their immense retreat-chance and, all in all, don't stand a chance against the strong endgame units fortified in cities. they are also very slow as they can not get mobility1 or be affected by haste.

while in vanilla/warlords bombardment and collateral damage are the most important things in ffh2 you need some magic user.
that's not per se wrong - but: the AI can not do this.

in my opinion the game needs to be playable without offensive magic use as the AI can not do it.
Would be great if the AI could use the magic of course but i don't see this to happen.

any of you ever played a completely mundane endgame on a challenging level (like emperor+)?

 

[Bill Bisco]

You make a good point about magic. Personally, I haven't yet played a game where didn't use some in the endgame. I could build up a bunch of stacks of units, but it's just much easier to cast Earthquake or Contagion or some other spell and then pick off the little bits that are left.

In fact that's all that the endgame is about. Striking quickly and screwing over your opponent.

And also yes individual heroes can win the game too. Of course if your enemy has spells they can be made just as useless

 

[jwin]

Both Hippus and Khazad can be very effective without magic against the AI. With Hippus, if a city's defences seem to good, I soften them up with units with high withdrawel. Usually, they get weakened enough that you can then kill them with a shadow or assassin.
Khazad cities can usually prodice tier 4 units in about 2 turns, making even the best units throwaway. The only magic you need is gates to get your troops to the front line.

 

[daladinn]

hmm .... non magical late game?

any T4 calvary can slaughter and of the arcanes without too much thought (the insane move makesw this possible)

your T4 archers allow either blitz or marksman , coupled with the normal 4-8 first strike you cant touch them with an army of little guys , you need 2-3 str 12+ units to deal with each one.

shadows are a whole world of pain in thier own right , coupled with collateral damage they are truely fun (see teh khazad shadow)

beastmasters with forest stealth are very annoying to counter , if your elven and have both the forest defense promos as well they are unstoppable.

druids .... yea , druids

the most power ability you can get with a disciple is the matriarch promo .... why fight a war when you can force someone else to.

 

[Grey Fox]

I've wanted to try Siege + Assassins some game.

Vampires are strong, but they do get magic...


Usually when I win on emperor, I don't get to T4 though, I win with a combination of T2 and T3 usually.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

You know, Dwarven Assassins cause collateral damage. They don't have any poison, but when you can fight the weakest unit in a stack and hurt everyone, who needs it?

Matriarch? do you mean Patriarch?

 

[slowcar]

just built my first (hippus) knights with ride of the nine kings and blitz-promotion (after 2 fights) and have to admit that my archmages can stay behind most of the time
promotions are just uber powerful and with pikes getting only +50% against mounted units you can just walk over them.
Still love my maelstrom-archmages though

 

[Jono]

But with Chaos 3 and Magnadine you can pretty much catch anything...

 

[kenken244]

but this is the endgame without magic thread so you cant use rage