ERC Strategy

[Dutchgael]

I played some MP games with two friends of mine, and I developed a strategy, which was pretty succesfull.
At a certain stage in the game Mettalurgy and Explosives were already discovered. I useally have one or more Engineers per city and because I had about 30 cities, I had about 30 Engineers.

When I discovered Railroad, I quickly began making railroads between all my cities. Then I got the idea:
* 3 Engineers place a railroad on a plain/grassland/desert in one single turn
* so 30 Engineers can advance 10 spaces in one turn, creating Railroad there

My enemy had only a simple road-netwerk.
So when I was creating the railroad-netwerk in my own empire, I had all my cities building cannons. Had about 50 Cannons when I attacked.
Then I advanced with the Engineers into his territory 10 spaces per turn (or more when there were roads already). With the 50 cannons just advancing with the Railroad front, I could kill every unit in my path, take every city on it. Wherever there were dangers for the next turn I placed defensive units, sometimes building a fortress (takes 2 Engineers per turn on plain etc.). When a city had many defenders, I threw just as many Cannons at it. So, even with the city captured, I had a lot of Cannons standing vulnerably in front of it on the railroadspace for one turn. With some spare Engineers I built a Fortress on that space, placed a defensive unit in it.

My enemy had about 50 cities, so he seemed much stronger than me, but he was totally helpless.

This strategy, I call it ERC (Engineer-Railroad-Cannon) works perfectly on plain/grassland/desert terrain, where Railroads are easily built.

In my case, with about 30 Engineers, it worked like such a unit:
SPEED: 10
ATTACK: 8
You have as much of it as much as you have Cannons, so I had about 50 of them. For defense: you can bring along defensive units just as quickly and build nice fortresses on the way.

If the enemy has only roads, then he's helpless. If the enemy has a railroad-network too, he can retaliate, so the first blow needs to be very hard.
"Lock in" to his Railroad network with your Engineers and send a great lot of Cannons or any other attack-unit on the way.

It worked very well for me, but I'm open for any critical note or counterstategy.

Bye, slán,
Dutchgael

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I usually compliment that with a couple of diplomats. That way you can just go around units outside the cities and save the cannons for attacks on the cities only.

I also use this when I'm at a Republic and the senate forces a cease fire on me. I build the railroads, while covering them with defensive units. Then I either wait for the cease fire to expire, or leave a target too tempting for the AI to pass up. Then they pull a sneak attack and the next turn my army hits. The trick then is to kill the units in the cities, but don't occupy the cities until the end of the turn (be sure to save some units for doing this). Otherwise, if you attack a city and capture it, the AI will want to talk with you and most likely the senate will sign another cease fire right then and there.

BTW, I have some saved games from GOTM 6 that show just this if anybody would like to see them.

 

[allan]

I find the AI will want to chat on the next turn, as you approach city number 2 (or whatever). I like marines for taking out coastal cities (I'll often take all enemy coastal cities to destroy his naval capability, then move into the interior at my leisure)--bombard with ships until no one's left (or bombers on carriers, if they have coastal fortresses), then plop a marine directly in there without any talk. They are good for both offense and defense, btw.

Landlocked attacks are a bit trickier in terms of preventing unwanted conversation, and partisans make it unavoidable (unless you have a bunch of units to cover all city radius squares, but then next turn they can be approached by the AI as well).

In democracy, I don't worry too much about preventing peace talks--I usually have the UN though, which may sometimes get the senate to support my denial of a cease fire, otherwise I just sit and wait for the AI to f*ck up and attack me... I welcome it....

Another thing--if you have two enemy civs in an alliance (you know, those "pacts against your aggression"), you can play that alliance quite easily sometimes: Say you're the Japanese (my most recent game), and the Persians and Greeks are allied. The Persians attack, you retaliate and the Greeks declare war due to the alliance. You take a Persian city, the Persians sue for peace BUT the Greeks are still at war with you, so next (on the same turn, mind you) you switch to the Greek theatre and attack. Nine times out of ten the Persians will redeclare war on you, due to the alliance, that very same turn! Then you finish taking a Greek city, Greeks sue for peace, but the Persians are still at war, so you continue in their theatre and--the Greeks declare war! You can repeat this cycle for awhile on the same turn--I did, and ended up taking something like five cities apiece from each the same turn, without breaking any treaties! They'll finally stop backing each other up at a certain point though, when they both feel the punishment....

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

True, after taking a city, the first time you bump into a unit the AI will want to talk. That is why I was saying to kill all the units in the cites first, then occupy them after doing all the combat. That way there are no units to bump into after you start occupying the cities. In GOTM 6 I took out 5-9 cities each time I got a chance to be at war with the AI and still have a spotless reputation.

Dutchgael's post was focusing on the mid-term level of game play; a point of the game when many people do not know how to fight effectively. There are no marines or partisans around then.

I like the use of the alliance trick, but as long as you don't actually occupy the cities first, it is not necessary to do on the same turn. But using that to have war declared on you the following turn, from the same nation you just wacked, is pretty cool.

 

[Dutchgael]

The Duke of Marlbrough is right, there were no partisans at that stage of the game. Besides, the enemy I was talking about was a human enemy. So I didn't have to worry about peace talks. Secondly, unlike the AI, humans keep most of their units in their cities. So I didn't need diplomats to go around units outside the cities. But of course, against AI, which for some stupid reason places lots of troops outside it's cities, a Diplomat can help you around them. By the way, human players keep one thing almost always out of their cities: their fleet! With the capture of coastal cities, you can destroy entire fleets without seeing them.

 

[allan]

"True, after taking a city, the first time you bump into a unit the AI will want to talk. That is why I was saying to kill all the units in the cites first, then occupy them after doing all the combat. That way there are no units to bump into after you start occupying the cities. In GOTM 6 I took out 5-9 cities each time I got a chance to be at war with the AI and still have a spotless reputation."

I guess you have to use lots of diplomats to know precisely how many units will be in all those cities, if they're interior cities (coastal cities will tell you if they're empty when the ship can no longer hit them). I don't build LOTS of dips (just a few), but you'd have to, to do something like that....

I also generally don't start heavy-duty conquests until the modern age, so partisans can be a problem for me vis a vis peace discussions....

[This message has been edited by allan (edited August 12, 2001).]

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by allan:
I guess you have to use lots of diplomats to know precisely how many units will be in all those cities, if they're interior cities (coastal cities will tell you if they're empty when the ship can no longer hit them). I don't build LOTS of dips (just a few), but you'd have to, to do something like that....

I only use 2 or 3 dips to allow my troops to get around the units the AI leaves outside the cities.

You can tell the cities are empty when there is no longer a flag showing in the city square, so you don't need to use dips to check them.

BTW, the AI usually keeps 2-3 units in most of it's cities, with newer ones generally having 1-2 and larger ones around 4-5.

So to take out 5 cities I generally only need 2-3 dips, 10-15 cannon and 5 other units to occupy them.

Dutchgael,

When you do this, how many times are you able to do it? I would think that another human player would go on an engineer killing spree to slow that down (not just ones building the rail, but everywhere), or a human who has enough military of their own might use the same rail system to go to your cities and take them out. Have you ever had reprocussions like that?

They would most likely be a fairly weak player (military or tech wise) to not try and stop that after the first time it happens?

 

[Håkan Eriksson]

You guys are talking alot about how to come around the senate when at war. i have my way: REVOLUTION! Just don't have democracy when you are at war. Change to Fundamentalism.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

True, Fundamentalism is great for fighting wars, but not too good for your civ as a whole.

To me, the ideal thing is to fight while at a republic or democracy. That way you get the trade bonus that comes with them. It's a way to get everything at once.

I have never gone to Communisim or Fundamentalism in my games simply because of the loss of the trade bonus. I would rather do everything well, than one thing very well and other parts poor.

Besides, where's the challenge in fighting a war when you change to Fundy or Comm?

 

[Odin]

Build the Statue of Liberty. That way, you can change to Fundamentalism, pound the tar out of the other civs, and change back to Republic/Democracy before the next turn.

------------------
"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music." -- George Carlin

 

[Kev]

As Odin writes, having the Statue of Liberty is great for having "One Day Revolutions" (as I call them). If not, just make sure it's an Oedo year.

With a large buildup near several different enemies, I like to hit the "Revolution" command, attack and maim, refuse treaties, kill and maim some more, then go right back to Democracy. I lose a turn of production, but often times it's worth it. I can even demand tribute while in Anarchy. I may be in war with several civs even after the "One Day Revolution". Fun.

------------------
Diplomacy - the art of
saying "Good Doggie"
until you can find a rock

 

[Dutchgael]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough:
When you do this, how many times are you able to do it? I would think that another human player would go on an engineer killing spree to slow that down (not just ones building the rail, but everywhere), or a human who has enough military of their own might use the same rail system to go to your cities and take them out. Have you ever had reprocussions like that?

They would most likely be a fairly weak player (military or tech wise) to not try and stop that after the first time it happens?[/B]

I used this strategy twice, both times the other player hadn't got a good railroad-network yet. This meant he couldn't mass enough troops troops to retaliate. With troops like Crusaders and Dragoons he killed some of my Engineers, which slowed me down, but not to such an extent that I was halted.

However, if the enemy has a good railroad-network for himself... I never experienced this, but I guess you should send in MANY Cannons at the first attack to seriously cripple the opponent.

 

[Sassenach]

I generally wait until a little later in the game, when you have Robotics and the other Civs have already made the rail network for you. Build up large numbers of howitzers, plus a few defensive units, and go for it.

You can usually take out an entire Civ in a few turns (assuming they are on the same continent as you)

 

[Aristonico]

For any reason the AI doesn't go for air forces as soon as you can. Just start to build fighters and attack the units in the enemy city

 

[noughmaster]

I generally wait until a little later in the game, when you have Robotics and the other Civs have already made the rail network for you. Build up large numbers of howitzers, plus a few defensive units, and go for it.

The only problem with this strategy is the other civs trade techs with each other. If they are all (or even most) large enough, they can get nukes b4 you can conquer them all.
I've found it's better to capture as many cities as possible b4 democracy to get the other civs behind in development. It's even worth going to communism for a while if you can get quite a few cities out of it. I liken the loss of scientific development here to a period of "We Love the Consul / President" days: the extra population gained now will eventually get you further ahead.

 

[Andu Indorin]

Originally posted by noughmaster:

The only problem with this strategy is the other civs trade techs with each other. If they are all (or even most) large enough, they can get nukes b4 you can conquer them all.

Boy, it's been a long time since I've allowed the AI civs to reach Nukes. Lately, it's been a case of my howitzers against their musketeers. ...

 

[allan]

The best way to avoid the AI having nukes is if you don't build the Manhattan Project (even when you get the tech to do so). If the AI starts building it (this starts happening in the upper levels), sabotage it if you can, or start building SDIs (again, if you can).

Best late-game weapons for taking out cities: bombers, stealth fighters and bombers, helicopters, and of course howitzers. And keep a reserve of mech infantries to enter the cities when they are empty. (Thanks to whoever it was above who alerted me to the flag showing when there's defense left in a city--I never noticed that before!)