Evolution????

[Stargirl]

There are colosseums throughout the game. That is one of the things that made Rome popular, and even though they aren't a wonder, they certainly increase happiness and culture for any city that builds them. I'd say that colosseums, aqueducts and other Roman influenced buildings do Rome more credit than any wonder.

Darwin's work wasn't really a "wonder", anyway. I never thought that it made sense to call it a wonder. His publication can be considered a "great work", however.


Outside the Indian communities, who watches Bollywood films? They may produce more but they certainly don't produce quality films, much less quality films that bring in hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. Take Lord of the Rings, or better yet, Star Wars, for examples. America is clearly the number one culture in the world, with McDonalds, StarBucks and Pizza Huts opening all over the place, and American movies postered and acclaimed throughout the world.

Lord of the rings was not american...

 

[Meglomania]

I"m glad to see Darwin go. Origin of Species can be consider a great work from down under, and I don't mean Australia. All it did was lead millions of people into the pit of dispair.

Science wins through everytime with me over superstition and heresay, and as has been mentioned "organised religions" has probably been the cause of more death and misery over the eons than anything else, guess we should bring back the old inquisitions and witchhunters......

Concerning the topic, Darwin should most definitely be in, as well as the Great Wall and a number of other crucial wonders. Bollywood, definitely produces some great movies and has a large cultural impact outside of the USA, but Hollywood should be No 1. RockNRoll, hmm, dodgy IMO, no idea of it's impact in Asia, Middle East etc, don't think it was much, and if Elvis is in then what about the Beatles?

Concerning Religion, well, have any of you read the Civilopia entries on the holy temples??? Every non Christian based one mentions supposed to be, believed him to be etc, and the Christian one's are stating God / Jesus etc as a certainty, not exactly being very neutral there! This combined with all of the Christian quotes on discoveries definitely gives the impression that there is a strong emphasis on Christianity, so if they were prepared to do that I don't understand why they didn't go all the way and assign them traits or something to give them more of an impact and personal feel, but considering the bias they would probably make Judism and Christianity too powerful!

 

[mark24]

Cyberstar,

I"m glad to see Darwin go. Origin of Species can be consider a great work from down under, and I don't mean Australia. All it did was lead millions of people into the pit of dispair.

Perhaps if I self-flagellate myself for long enough I will be allowed into heaven? Like all the rest of the witless fools who fail to comprehend the value of a logically valid argument, supported evidentially in true multidisciplinary fashion. The same people who are unable to juxtapose this against the unquestioning belief of scientifically contradicted mythology.

Maybe if I unlearn the value of logic, evidence & reason I will redeem myself?

Mark

 

[aahz_capone]

I think it all comes down to gameplay: the darwin wonder sucked. "here, have two free techs, because the theory of evolution can really help you race to build hoover damn!" It made no damn sence. It was just a cheap run for tech. And darwin is now a great scientist, what more do you want?

as for hollywood, i take it as a generalisation of our screen culture. TVs are the colleseums of today.

 

[Grizpin]

Lord of the rings was not american...

The novels were not. But he was referencing the movie which was developed with American technology to adapt the novels to the big screen with all the fancy special effects.

 

[Basti1981]

I think it all comes down to gameplay: the darwin wonder sucked. "here, have two free techs, because the theory of evolution can really help you race to build hoover damn!" It made no damn sence. It was just a cheap run for tech. And darwin is now a great scientist, what more do you want?

as for hollywood, i take it as a generalisation of our screen culture. TVs are the colleseums of today.

Oh man! All wonders were changed in their effects, so why couldn't the Darwin wonder be changed?
For me there are only 2 real World Wonder. The Pyramids and the great wall. But if you were able to build the great wall, there were 2 chineese wonders in the game. Obviously too much for a the country with the biggest population in the world. Elvis and Broadway are more important...
AGAIN I'm asking for more espionage options.

 

[whb]

Science wins through everytime with me over superstition and heresay, and as has been mentioned "organised religions" has probably been the cause of more death and misery over the eons than anything else, guess we should bring back the old inquisitions and witchhunters......

...of course they've also been responsible for beginning the widespread provision of free schools in the industrial revolution (something we now take for granted), campaigning to eradicate child labour (which again we now take for granted), and still today run many of the homeless shelters and battered women's shelters, worked for peace in places like Mozambique, and there are still countless church and faith based organisations busily relieving poverty and saving lives all over the world.

But perhaps we're so busy taking everything for granted we can only think of "witchhunts and inquisitions" when we think about religion?

 

[Phoenix]

Well it could just boost beaker output by 100% then. Britain is responsible for 55% of all inventions so to not have on what is one of its most important discoveries is a joke. I personaly find it staggering that things like Hollywood and Rock n Roll are in but Evolution isn't. It just shows that they're bowing to the christian fundamentalists. A couple of years ago I took it for granted that EVERYBODY minus one or two people beleaved in evolution. I was staggered when I heard otherwise.

 

[Hentooth]

That is actually an exxcellent idea for a mod, Hentooth!

Thank you!

I was also thinking about other things that could spread and affect other civs and I suppose the most obvious one was having a state language. Then I thought that might be a little too hard to do.

Another thought was sport. Why not have a football (soccer to our American friends) world cup wonder? Most countries in the world are affected by it and it could add to the happiness of a nation if they won!

 

[Major Mayhem]

Evolution is a scientific theory, so its most appropriate place would be as a technology. Having the Theory of Evolution as a wonder never made sense to me, I mean where are the wonders for the Theory of Relativity or Quantum Mechanics or the Copernican view of the universe or the Germ Theory of Disease?

Religion has been responsible for despicable things as well as wonderful things, but so has science and non-religion. How many people have the followers of Marx and Lenin killed?

Edit: spelling

 

[Lekkric]

Lord of the rings was not american...

The novels were not. But he was referencing the movie which was developed with American technology to adapt the novels to the big screen with all the fancy special effects.

Actually, it was filmed in New Zealand, by a New Zealand director, and used a New Zealand sfx company. The only American influence, as far as i know, was cash from the producer and a few actors (Elijah Wood, Sean Astin, Viggo Mortensen - born in Norway and raised all over the damn world, but currently an American citizen i beleive - and Liv Tyler were the main ones).

It was still called a Hollywood Blockbuster because of the Hollywood producer and the sheer magnitude of the film.

 

[aahz_capone]

Lekkric speaks the truth

 

[Grizpin]

I stand corrected ... It was a New Zealand company.... Weta Digital. I still understand what the original poster of the comment was getting at

 

[Renatus]

with McDonalds, StarBucks and Pizza Huts opening all over the place, [/QUOTE]

No wonder you population is turning into blimps

 

[Karnak]

Darwin shows up as a Great Person.

 

[Meglomania]

...of course they've also been responsible for beginning the widespread provision of free schools in the industrial revolution (something we now take for granted), campaigning to eradicate child labour (which again we now take for granted), and still today run many of the homeless shelters and battered women's shelters, worked for peace in places like Mozambique, and there are still countless church and faith based organisations busily relieving poverty and saving lives all over the world.

But perhaps we're so busy taking everything for granted we can only think of "witchhunts and inquisitions" when we think about religion?

Of course, those and many more, if it wasn't for the religious orders and monastries painstakingly preserving the ancient texts from the fall of the Roman Empire there's a good chance that the dark ages could have gone on for centuries longer, which would have spelt doom for European civilisations when the Ottomans arrived.

I was just taking a somewhat devils advocate response to Mr Darwin is the Devil. Teaching people moral values and to treat others as you would want to be treated yourself is a great thing, and unfortunately given human nature having an all powerful being / beings to enforce the rule is probably a good thing

 

[dh_epic]

There's no such thing as evolution. The tech tree shouldn't include "theories".

 

[Hentooth]

There's no such thing as evolution. The tech tree shouldn't include "theories".

Oh dear, has this thread gone a full circle?

Evolution may be still a theory, but most religions are based on stories written hundreds of years afterthe event, in a kind of Chinese whisper. For all we know, Life of Brian is more realistic than the Bible!

I know which one sounds more plausible!

 

[RIT Beast]

jeez folks, we're Americans, not monsters. There's nothing "patriotic" about what Sid did, he just did what he thought made sense. Darwinism isn't a 'great wonder', but he is a great man. Rock and roll is the first kind of music that comes to mind when you think of great music innovations of the last century. To us, Hollywood = movies. If there was a Bollywood, noone here would have any idea what that meant. There's nothing sinister here.

I can understand why you're upset as you feel that it's a blow to your national pride, and I'd be equally upset if America was taken out of the game (though I always play as the germans anyways). Let's keep in mind that it's just a game and not a plot to pretend that Europe doesn't exist.

 

[gunnergoz]

To the little digital/binary inhabitants of my Civ IV world, Sid IS God. Intelligent design rules! We can prove it! It's on the box! Sid said "It is good" and the universe went Gold. Alleluja! All praise to the Developer. Pray to the holy Betas and Pious Programmers! Kneel before the Lord of Control-Alt-Delete for in their hands lies the apocalypse!