Evolution????
- Thread starter Basti1981
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TheDervish
Scion of the Achaemenids
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Isn't he Danish?
Sol Invictus said:
you'd be suprised at the number of people in south asia outside of India who watch bollywood films. And sure some hollywood films are good quality but so are some bollywood films (lagaan, sholay) and though bollywood does produce tons of junk so does hollywood (sharkboy & lavagirl, troy). McDonalds, not culture, more like grease bowl. and really america is not the worlds#1 culture. if you look at european and middle eastern civilizations you will find something much more influential.
This is just silly. I'm half expecting Graham Chapman to come out in his Major uniform and put an end to this silliness.
To all non-Americans out there, it's a game made by an American company. The game is marketed primarily as an American game. Sadly, efforts to coordinate the marketing towards other cultures would set programming back years. The'd have to call the time right after changing Civics to "tea-time" or "ciesta". There'd be Oktobre Fest every year in some cities where production is corrupted due to drunkenness. An upgrade to melee units would be Kunk-Fu or Karate.
Hardly anyone in the USA knows what London's West End is. Heck, I didn't know it had anything to do with Broadway until I picked it up from the context clues here. Bollywood would make people laugh, but nobody would know what it is. There is a free tech in the game; I forget how it comes about, though. So the benefit of Darwin is still there.
Really. There's a TON of "wonders" out there that have not been included in the game. Big Ben (as noted). THE Colliseum (specifically, the one in Rome, not just the one that can be build in every city (there was more than one Colliseum in reality)). Nero's palace. The Mall of America.
For that matter, how can you have Bronze Working, yet there is no Tin in the game? (bronze is an alloy of Copper and Tin). How can there be Literature before the Printing Press (before that, only the very rich could afford anything considered Literature. Not much of a technical advance).
Despite the fact that the game has pretty much gone global, it is still an American game. If you want it to be more European or Asian or something, then get some programmers together over there and write your own durned Civilization. We don't change the Hamburger to something else in your country, why change a game?
To all non-Americans out there, it's a game made by an American company. The game is marketed primarily as an American game. Sadly, efforts to coordinate the marketing towards other cultures would set programming back years. The'd have to call the time right after changing Civics to "tea-time" or "ciesta". There'd be Oktobre Fest every year in some cities where production is corrupted due to drunkenness. An upgrade to melee units would be Kunk-Fu or Karate.
Hardly anyone in the USA knows what London's West End is. Heck, I didn't know it had anything to do with Broadway until I picked it up from the context clues here. Bollywood would make people laugh, but nobody would know what it is. There is a free tech in the game; I forget how it comes about, though. So the benefit of Darwin is still there.
Really. There's a TON of "wonders" out there that have not been included in the game. Big Ben (as noted). THE Colliseum (specifically, the one in Rome, not just the one that can be build in every city (there was more than one Colliseum in reality)). Nero's palace. The Mall of America.
For that matter, how can you have Bronze Working, yet there is no Tin in the game? (bronze is an alloy of Copper and Tin). How can there be Literature before the Printing Press (before that, only the very rich could afford anything considered Literature. Not much of a technical advance).
Despite the fact that the game has pretty much gone global, it is still an American game. If you want it to be more European or Asian or something, then get some programmers together over there and write your own durned Civilization. We don't change the Hamburger to something else in your country, why change a game?
And to settle the hamburger debate, hamburgers are an American invention. They originated in Hamburg, Germany as a treat for American sailors as ground or shredded, uncooked beef with an egg on top. Americans brought them over here. By the World's Fair in the early 20th Century, they had begun cooking the meat, and the egg was replaced by a slab of butter. They also began putting them on bread. In the 30's or 40's, some genius decided to solve the problem of soggy bread by making small dinner rolls. He began selling these out of an old trolley or something, and to promote cleanliness, he called them White Castle burgers.
During WWI, many foreign foods had their names changed. I believe Sour Kraut became American Cabbage. The Hamburger was renamed Salisbury Steak. Neither of these names took hold, although the Salisbury steak is still around in roughly the same form as the Hamburger was in WWI. The original "hamburger" dish that was made in Hamburg is called Steak Tar-Tar if I recall correctly.
So while the Hamburger wouldn't have made it big if that sailor's dish wasn't made way back when, the only similarity between that and the current hamburger is that they both use beef. That would be like saying barbells and battleships were invented in Mesopotania since that where the first steel is found.
During WWI, many foreign foods had their names changed. I believe Sour Kraut became American Cabbage. The Hamburger was renamed Salisbury Steak. Neither of these names took hold, although the Salisbury steak is still around in roughly the same form as the Hamburger was in WWI. The original "hamburger" dish that was made in Hamburg is called Steak Tar-Tar if I recall correctly.
So while the Hamburger wouldn't have made it big if that sailor's dish wasn't made way back when, the only similarity between that and the current hamburger is that they both use beef. That would be like saying barbells and battleships were invented in Mesopotania since that where the first steel is found.
sav
King
zeeter said:
Er, yes they do. McDonalds sold something called a 'kiwiburger' for a while. God only knows what was in it though!
butlerj1982
Chieftain
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Great post. It is made by an American company; of course it is going to be American-centric.
Hollywood, Rock n' Roll and Broadway are American. American culture has completely dominated the world in the late 20th to early 21st century. Im not saying its the "best" (if one can call their culture "best"), but it is certainly the fastest-spreading and most influential. Theres a reason Lord of the Rings was made by America: we supplied the money. We are the richest. We dominate this era of human history; yes, the Chinese are fast-comers, and i personally think Bush has doomed us to have our Golden Age be in the past, but the simple fact is that right now we are the biggest and the best, and that fact should be reflected in the modern-times of Civ. Couple that with the American market, the American developers and there you have it.
Hollywood, Rock n' Roll and Broadway are American. American culture has completely dominated the world in the late 20th to early 21st century. Im not saying its the "best" (if one can call their culture "best"), but it is certainly the fastest-spreading and most influential. Theres a reason Lord of the Rings was made by America: we supplied the money. We are the richest. We dominate this era of human history; yes, the Chinese are fast-comers, and i personally think Bush has doomed us to have our Golden Age be in the past, but the simple fact is that right now we are the biggest and the best, and that fact should be reflected in the modern-times of Civ. Couple that with the American market, the American developers and there you have it.
Warman11 said:
Basti1981 said:
And "tall metal structures" are part of EVERY nation with their designs influenced by or influencing culture.
Well some nations might not have had "tall metal structures", but I also sincerely doubt the Aztecs and some others had "movies".I was surprised to see no ToE as a tech, but for people to get upset about it is
. It's just a game. Evolution and Darwin are mentioned in the game. Some people sound a little paranoid in this area.At any rate, I agree the Great Wall (of China) is a sorely missing wonder. It will keep people talking about the game 6months from now despite the fact anyone can mod the game. It's almost like they left ToE and Great Wall out for a must buy expansion (plants seed), but I love hearing the "it's because of patriotism/religion/evil Sid" theories too.
This thread...zeeter said:
Well, hopefully it won't be too hard to mod the tech tree. I want Evolution in there too, it's an incredibly important scientific discovery that should not be left out. And Broadway and Rock n'Roll strike me as slightly silly to have in there. Also, isn't music a tech? If so, that's also silly -- people have always had music of some sort, it's like having fire or language as a tech. But well, that's what modding is for.
enen said:
Is that true? I never saw that - probably because I never was the first to go around the world. Does it count for that unit or for the civ in general?
I always did find it interesting that an achievable "wonder" could be built by a civilization that hadn't even build it's first naval unit yet. It does make a lot of sense to do it this way.
BTW: My post was referring more to the Columbus expedition than Magellan, although they both work.
Why are Rock and Roll and Broadway in the game, but not British Post-Punk and Performance Art? How about Flemish Ballads and Mime? Vespers and Pointillism? The Japanese can have Karaoke and Yoko Ono. When someone does a Canada mod we can put in the NHL and The Kids In The Hall.
Somebody said Darwin's Origin of Species lead millions of people into the pit of dispair...
It did, according to Darwin: Human's were no longer the center of the universe. Boo Hoo!
Personally, A "theory" as a wonder is 'almost' an attempt to sport that particular theory: "Evolution rules! Creation Drules!" I'm glad this type of intolerance has been eradicated. Darwin had a great mind thus, appropriately, is a Great Scientist.
It did, according to Darwin: Human's were no longer the center of the universe. Boo Hoo!
Personally, A "theory" as a wonder is 'almost' an attempt to sport that particular theory: "Evolution rules! Creation Drules!" I'm glad this type of intolerance has been eradicated. Darwin had a great mind thus, appropriately, is a Great Scientist.
diamond geezer
Warlord
!scorpion said:
Free snake oil with every purchase.
It is stupid to have an American culture in the game anyway. Where was that 'culture' 2000 years ago? All the others were there, except that the Spanish and French should be called Celts instead. The American Continent is represented by two unique cultures, which are real original cultures of America (Why are the Iroquoise not there any more?). It is interesting to see that both those cultures get the 'aggressive' quality... That is pure racism. The white people who came from European cultures killed whole civilizations within years and 'America' gets a label like 'industrial', 'organized'...
As for the Rock'n'Roll: someone posted that was the biggest influence in music over the last 100 years. Again, racism: Rock'n'Roll developed from Blues and Swing and (earlier) Ragtime. Nearly all of the musicians were black. Rock'n'Roll was a short phase compared to Blues and Jazz, the modern music is more Beat-like than Rock-like. Then there are Wagner, Strauss and Maler, all from the past 100 years...
The modern (amican-style) recources like movies and musicals ruin the endgame, which is sad but at least not racist...
The hint on the 'American game, American market' is also wrong, Europe and Asia are both alone bigger markets than America (even if some people don´t like it). I personally would recommend the developers to look for African world wonders (apart from Egypt), to inculde an Aborigene (spelling?) Australian culture, or to have Mr. Luther King as a great American leader.
As for the Rock'n'Roll: someone posted that was the biggest influence in music over the last 100 years. Again, racism: Rock'n'Roll developed from Blues and Swing and (earlier) Ragtime. Nearly all of the musicians were black. Rock'n'Roll was a short phase compared to Blues and Jazz, the modern music is more Beat-like than Rock-like. Then there are Wagner, Strauss and Maler, all from the past 100 years...
The modern (amican-style) recources like movies and musicals ruin the endgame, which is sad but at least not racist...
The hint on the 'American game, American market' is also wrong, Europe and Asia are both alone bigger markets than America (even if some people don´t like it). I personally would recommend the developers to look for African world wonders (apart from Egypt), to inculde an Aborigene (spelling?) Australian culture, or to have Mr. Luther King as a great American leader.
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