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Fall from Heaven: Rise of Mania

Meant the Mercantilism tech which allows the ability to build towns directly.

Ahh haven't tried that one yet. I did capture some non-dwarven workers and am building some of the growing versions of farms around my capital. Somehow that seems wrong though.

A few other simpler ideas would be to have workers required upkeep of 1 gold.

They DO require upkeep. Thats why I delete them if I won't be needing them anytime soon, then make new ones when I want to get back to building phase.
 
First off, Great mod.

Glad you like it. :)

Re workers, how would that prevent the issue of workers idling after a while?

What would nomadic warriors or scout be able to do more than normal warriors and scouts?

Re a -20% food penalty, I'm kinda worried that might make it too hard to even reach size 3, the minimum size required to "draft" a nomadic unit.
I've thought too about reducing city costs with Nomadism, but than again, wouldn't that just be duplicate of City States? Of course the City States name doesn't really fit with Nomadism, but for this specific situation you could think of the civic as "Independent Clans" or something.

Ahh haven't tried that one yet. I did capture some non-dwarven workers and am building some of the growing versions of farms around my capital. Somehow that seems wrong though.

You mean building improvements you normally can't build? Just had an idea! I guess simply making all the worker into one unitclass should prevent obtaining other races' workers. For now I'd say to just self-police. :D
Edit: Oh wait, all workers already are one unitclass. :hmm:

They DO require upkeep. Thats why I delete them if I won't be needing them anytime soon, then make new ones when I want to get back to building phase.

:eek: If you consider 1 hammer = 2 gold, it's cheaper to keep worker around idling for 149 turns than to build new ones after a while.
 
Looks like they were lucky to end their turn with a priest of leaves that has the ability to bloom forests on a tile that could be bloomed. That's just my interpretation, of course.
 
You mean building improvements you normally can't build? Just had an idea! I guess simply making all the worker into one unitclass should prevent obtaining other races' workers. For now I'd say to just self-police. :D
Edit: Oh wait, all workers already are one unitclass. :hmm:

I've been thinking about this...
I can see where it might seem a little off balance gamewise. But the improvements do take a long time to upgrade themselves, and the benefit is not that huge. It just might gove a bit of extra production to speed up the endgame. but I don't think it would be enough to save you if you are losing.

Then if you think about it historically, all the greatest real world civilizations (persians and romans in particular) would take knowledge and techniques from conquered people and incorporate it into their own civilization, so from that perspective there is nothing wrong.
 
nice work on the mod

ZOC, the civic changes and the strengthened mounted units i like a lot (the auto promote for metal resources is great). the tech tree i havent played with often enough to say too much about it yet

regarding the new improvements, i like the concept but I dont really see how this trade off works in practice between the nomadic and sedentary lifestyles. mostly this is because i think the tradeoff is a civ choice not an improvement choice - if u pick for example the clan then pastures are nice, but if u pick khazad they just arent.

I also found in my game (as elohim) that pastures just werent strong enough to be worth building after i had both agriculture and mining. perhaps if i had invested in the cavalry tech line this would have been different, but in my game which focused more on religious/metal/magic techs, i felt that a tradeoff of farms vs cottages had been replaced with an evolution from early pastures to farms and mines, and very little tradeoff at all. i currently have every city spammed with mines/farms and nothing else apart from resources.

i also cant seem to build terraces.. not sure what im doing wrong there. i have construction but never got the option. if i did id maybe have less mines :)

the other thing i did was picked nomadism asap and got horseback riding, drafted "mounted settlers" which enabled me to expand a lot faster than usual, then just ditched nomadism again when i couldnt afford to expand any further. im not sure if this is really the spirit of nomadism or imperialism :)
 
i also cant seem to build terraces.. not sure what im doing wrong there. i have construction but never got the option. if i did id maybe have less mines :)

It took me a while to figure that out too. You have to have a hill next to a water source (lake/oasis/irrigated farm) to build a terrace.

I just ended my first game with this mod! (well quit because it is inevitable I win but will take a LONG time to finish on the HUGE map...)

Played Khazaad so I didn't get to try out the horses much.

Overall, a very excellent mod-mod :goodjob:

Tech tree could use some cleaning up- but thats a minor issue.

I saw Blood of the Phoenix got nerfed!!! After I built it of course... Could be a cheaper build to reflect the much weaker ability, plus maybe an earlier tech- the new effect is weak for a late game wonder.

I think overall the slower workers are a good idea- it forced me to be more proactive in my defense to be able to prevent razing. I don't think they need to be as slow as they are, though. I think a 50% increase in build time would be better than doubling it.

I like the new worker build options! (IE terraces, growing farms/mines/etc)

I think it was a good idea making city raider/defender come at a higher level. (as opposed to eliminating them)

The defensive retreat... grr those aggravating goblin chariots!! Really fits themewise, so great job with that! I don't know if it should be a universal ability- but really does fit with goblins which are supposed to be annoying and aggravating! One thing though- about 50% of the time it says that the unit ran away but I killed it anyways.

Love the ZoC!! My problem I posted about before was probably just bad luck, because I have seen the forts block movement now.

OK long post wasted 10 more minutes of work :) Better get something productive done before the boss complains!
 
Looks like they were lucky to end their turn with a priest of leaves that has the ability to bloom forests on a tile that could be bloomed. That's just my interpretation, of course.

Yeah, the priest of leaves bloomed three forests right after each other, but that was it. :( I increased the AIweight of the Nature II promotion and changed the bloom spell so that it can also be cast on tiles with terrain improvements, but the AI refuses to roam around their priests of leaves so they get the opportunity to bloom. They just sit around in their cities. :mad: Even if I only give them the animal AI. Though that perhaps may be because the already existing priests of leaves stay stuck with the unit AI of the time they were built (before I gave them only animal AI). I guess I'll see further what happens... :(


Hmm, my experience seems to be slightly different. Though of course I have less actual gameplay experience with RoM than some people here. :D So I'd love to hear more opinions.

Re pastures being a civ tradeoff instead of an improvement choice. I'd say that's partially true. Eg Khazad and philosophical leaders would fall on the farm/mine extreme, while Hippus fall on the other. But that counts for about every aspect of the game that there is some synergy between a certain strategy and some civs that are especially good in that. Eg some religions or unit research paths being the obvious choice for certain civs. For most civs though the impression seems to me though that they can go either way.

Re an evolution from pastures from farms, I seem to notice this partially too. For me though part of the reason is simply that the Sanitation tech is much cheaper and more attractive than Stirrups. Perhaps increasing Sanitation cost and decreasing Stirrups cost would help? Or perhaps split Sanitation in a Sanitation and Crop Rotation tech?

But still, the evolution from pasture to farm seems much slower with me. In my current game I'm currently still not building farms everywhere for the following reasons:
1) I don't have fresh water access everywhere.
2) My happiness limit is not high enough to support farms and high population everywhere, so I'd rather have some extra hammers than food that would only give me unhappy citizens.
3) I have repeated wars with my more powerful Sidar neighbour who's razing the improvements around a couple border cities. :mad: So it would be pointless to waste time on farms.
4) Worker shortages... Farms costs more time to build, so I find it better to build pastures instead for now. This is even more the case since I still have a couple Nomadic Horsemen running around who can only build pastures.

Aren't these issues for you? Though of course this may just be a consequence of the sort of games I play: generally a builder's nightmare. ;) 1) Fresh water access everywhere may be easier on continents or pangea maps. 2) Octopus Overlords and Ashen Veil have no issue with happiness limits. 3 & 4) The smaller maps with the more aggressive AI opponents you play, the more pastures become attractive, and the less time you have to build sufficient workers between the heavy military expenditures. Stuff like that.

the other thing i did was picked nomadism asap and got horseback riding, drafted "mounted settlers" which enabled me to expand a lot faster than usual, then just ditched nomadism again when i couldnt afford to expand any further. im not sure if this is really the spirit of nomadism or imperialism :)

I'd say that's just good strategy. Roleplaywise you could also consider the nomadism civic as cowboy style expansionism on the far west frontier. Gameplaywise for such a strategy to make a difference you need to research Horseback Riding early. You could have used that time to found a religion instead. So for the moment I'd say this is not unbalancing.

Tech tree could use some cleaning up- but thats a minor issue.

I know. I'm open to suggestions. :cool: Problem is that Warfare now has three OR prerequisites as part of the process of making the mounted and archer lines more attractive. And those annoying OR lines easily cause trouble. :(

I saw Blood of the Phoenix got nerfed!!! After I built it of course... Could be a cheaper build to reflect the much weaker ability, plus maybe an earlier tech- the new effect is weak for a late game wonder.

I didn't do anything. :confused: What's different?

One thing though- about 50% of the time it says that the unit ran away but I killed it anyways.

Have noticed that too. Don't know what could be causing it though. :confused: Normally the withdrawal event should happen before the actual attack even happens.

my Bambur comes out as a half orange sphere; the other dwarf hero is ok
any idea of what is causing this ?
thanks

I'd suggest to reinstall patch i and then RoM over it again. Normally you should have a Assets/art/units/Heroes/Bambur folder which got added with the latest patch i.
 
I didn't do anything. :confused: What's different?

Had to re-load the mod so I could reload my save... Went back to the regular FfH so I could try the Svartalfar mod. :cool:

It gives +6 culture, +1 great prophet and free medic 1 promotion for units built in the city for 7500 hammers.

Which sounds vaguely like another wonder but I can't think of it at the moment.
 
small tiny question... it says in the list of changes... ah here is the number 7 in the list...

7. The Grigori can run Public Healers.

Hmm... I'm currently playing a game as these folks and well... how the hell can you change over to that if it requires your civ to have the Good trait? the only way I can see how you change your good/neutral/evil trait is to change religions... which Grigori can't do because of their trait that doesn't allow that... so tell me how can one change to public healers without having to be in the good area?
 
small tiny question... it says in the list of changes... ah here is the number 7 in the list...

7. The Grigori can run Public Healers.

Hmm... I'm currently playing a game as these folks and well... how the hell can you change over to that if it requires your civ to have the Good trait? the only way I can see how you change your good/neutral/evil trait is to change religions... which Grigori can't do because of their trait that doesn't allow that... so tell me how can one change to public healers without having to be in the good area?

:confused:
That is the entire point of change. You need good alignment OR to be Grigori.
 
@Maniac- In special building infos xml, disable that temples are allowed by philosophy, (Vanilla FfH cosmetic issue, I'm going to post that there)
 
:cringe: I'm not sure you get my meaning... I am playing as them... yet when I go to switch to PUblic healers... it won't allow me to do so... says the requirement: good alignment is need.
if Grigori can run that civ... then why can't i do it? I downloaded the update to RoM when it came out...
 
Is it normal that I have a fully patched version of FFH, install the zip from the first page (by unzipping it in my folder, it all seems to be ok) but then it gives me XML errors when I load up the mod?

I'm using the desktop shortcut, but that shouldn't affect anything.

It starts up, so I'll start playing a game and see how it goes.
 
Is it normal that I have a fully patched version of FFH, install the zip from the first page (by unzipping it in my folder, it all seems to be ok) but then it gives me XML errors when I load up the mod?

Noe. What do the errors say? There's definitely something wrong though if you as the Khazad start with the option to turn invisibility on and off. Only Hidden leaders should get that. I'm afraid I can't open your save right now as I keep RoM in a different directory than you.

:cringe: I'm not sure you get my meaning... I am playing as them... yet when I go to switch to PUblic healers... it won't allow me to do so... says the requirement: good alignment is need.
if Grigori can run that civ... then why can't i do it? I downloaded the update to RoM when it came out...

Err woops. Thanks for reporting. I mistakingly put an 'or' where an 'and' should be in a python file. In fact I predict currently no one will be able to run Public Healers. :blush: Sorry... With all those changes it's easy to miss a mistake sometimes. Anyway, a serious enough issue to fix it right away, so I'll release version 6. I was hoping to wait until patch j came out, so I could take over the changes to drafting, but whatever. I'll upload the file tomorrow. Meanwhile here's the changelog:


1. Syliven’s Perfect Lyre’s cost lowered to 400 hammers.
2. Drama no longer gives a free Great Artist for the first researcher.

As a general rule I’m against giving more than one one-time bonus per tech.

3. Elder Council requires Education instead of Mysticism.

The Education tech was kinda getting empty after the removal of cottages, and the moving of Apprenticeship.

4. Apprenticeship requires Archery instead of Education.
5. Under Nationhood Training Yard and Archery Range each provide +1 happiness.
6. Bowyers no longer requires Bronze Working.
7. Longbowman no longer requires any resource.

Part of the process of making the different combat lines more attractive. The real reason to move Apprenticeship is of course to make more Archery more attractive, but I guess it makes sense as archery is together with Tracking probably the skill that would require the most training. And Longbowmen requiring the melee line is not a good idea if you want people to pursue archers instead of melee from time to time.

8. Pikeman requires Constitution instead of Metal Casting. Cost lowered to 110 hammers. Copper suffices to build the unit. Exceptions: Boarding Party requires Astronomy. Gargoyle is unchanged. Ogre is unchanged except cost is lowered to 120 hammers. Doviello Pikeman reduced to cost 135.

Again, real reason is of course getting people to use Pikemen from time to time. Making them require more research than Macemen which are better in most situations is not a good idea then. If you want a roleplay explanation why they require Constitution: pikes and spears are among the cheapest weapons available, so they are popular with peasant rebels who want a more polyarchic society (ie republic in FfH), which usually also involves fighting against mounted royalist troops.

9. Priest of Leaves now only has the Animal AI.

One day I’ll succeed in getting the AI to bloom forests... I’m sure of it. :mischief:

10. Woodsman II has iAIWeight 10.
11. Basilica gives +2 happiness under Social Order.
12. Captured slaves keep their race.
13. Dwarven Druid can see Shadows. Requires Metal Casting, and no longer Commune with Nature and a Grove.
14. Arcane Barge no longer requires Fire Mana (as it used to be).
15. If you have the Priesthood tech and have Fellowship of Leaves as state religion, Jungle has a 10% chance each turn to turn into forest.
16. The Drown, Stygian Guard and Eidolon cannot lose Water Walking due to Dispel Magic.
17. The AI no longer gives top priority to building a forge.
 
:D glad to be of service in noticing things... lol even though it's frustrating, that's where us the people who play these mods come in! We tell you about things that don't seem to be right with the game and as such you THE mods developers go back and fix.
 
Here's your next fix. ;)

Download the zip


Btw, now that I put Pikeman on another tech branch than Maceman, and they only require Copper, I'm wondering... should I leave them as is, or also use the Weapons promotions for them? That is, start with strength 4, but be able to get to strength 6 with Iron. Or would that make them too unattractive again?
 
:D glad to be of service in noticing things... lol even though it's frustrating, that's where us the people who play these mods come in! We tell you about things that don't seem to be right with the game and as such you THE mods developers go back and fix.

Heh, sorry for my response, I haven't really played Grigori in RoM... (But how comes that I never noticed that I can't run public healers even with good races?:crazyeye: )
 
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