CPWimmer
King
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2016
- Messages
- 852
These are why I try to get 3 Slingers relatively early.
[Vanilla] First build?
- Thread starter twansalem
- Start date
Deadly Dog
Prince
I play on epic speed, immortal or deity sometimes emperor, and I'm not a fan of the slinger first build.
I have 3 priorities when I choose my production, which are first defense, second growth/prod, then culture. I use the map to decide which are covered and which need a build. Where my goal is almost always a second settler ASAP, the order of builds before that will change as I meet those priorities in order. Hard building a momument for culture almost always waits until after my settler, but never say never.
I think of builder first until size 2 for settler as the ideal but rarely practical situation. So only if completely isolated on an island or as good as. Until I feel protected by coasts and mountains and CS's though I want another unit with ZOC, no ifs ands or buts. Slingers let me down too many times trampled by raiding parties or not being able to stop the alerted barb scout in the first place. And scouts make nicer impression on AI, are cheaper and can almost always move faster.
One slinger soon after the first settler for the archery eureka makes total sense, and its a cheap first archer. Sometimes I end up buying the slinger, especially if a wounded barabarian is at my border.
And of course if there's zero culture to be had from terrain or city states I have to work a monument into the plan as getting out of chiefdom govt is a priority.
I have 3 priorities when I choose my production, which are first defense, second growth/prod, then culture. I use the map to decide which are covered and which need a build. Where my goal is almost always a second settler ASAP, the order of builds before that will change as I meet those priorities in order. Hard building a momument for culture almost always waits until after my settler, but never say never.
I think of builder first until size 2 for settler as the ideal but rarely practical situation. So only if completely isolated on an island or as good as. Until I feel protected by coasts and mountains and CS's though I want another unit with ZOC, no ifs ands or buts. Slingers let me down too many times trampled by raiding parties or not being able to stop the alerted barb scout in the first place. And scouts make nicer impression on AI, are cheaper and can almost always move faster.
One slinger soon after the first settler for the archery eureka makes total sense, and its a cheap first archer. Sometimes I end up buying the slinger, especially if a wounded barabarian is at my border.
And of course if there's zero culture to be had from terrain or city states I have to work a monument into the plan as getting out of chiefdom govt is a priority.
Yeah, slingers by themselves suck, although if you can camp in a city it's not long to the +10 promotion, at which point they actually are fairly strong at fighting barbs who are sieging your city, especially since they can take shots at them without hurting themselves. And then obviously once archers come online, they can really clean up.
I'd love to go builder-settler, or scout-builder-settler, or even scout-settler, but especially since the recent updates, I find barbarians are just too deadly, and my warrior is woefully horrible at spotting where the nearby barb camps are. And because of that, I'm pretty much always forced to get a slinger in my first or second build (lately I tend to do scout-slinger-builder-settler, although that does make for a fairly slow 2nd city, unfortunately).
I'd love to go builder-settler, or scout-builder-settler, or even scout-settler, but especially since the recent updates, I find barbarians are just too deadly, and my warrior is woefully horrible at spotting where the nearby barb camps are. And because of that, I'm pretty much always forced to get a slinger in my first or second build (lately I tend to do scout-slinger-builder-settler, although that does make for a fairly slow 2nd city, unfortunately).
japanesesamurai
Prince
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2019
- Messages
- 337
I usually spam a bunch of slingers to get cheap archers. It depends on the terrain and neighbours.
Deadly Dog
Prince
I certainly agree about the barbarians. Playing epic speed however, 22 exp for a promotion is tough to get on a slinger - or any unit - without running away and hiding. Great thing about a scout opener, which I see you also like, is they can heal in the field, and with a bit of luck you can quickly turn them to exploring once you find another city (A nearby city gives some reassurance that the barb scouts will get slowed/stopped), or enough coastline and mountain to focus your units in something less than a 360 circle around your capital.
I'm also noticing I can do OK if I let my capital go to size 3 then build two settlers. This is in when first two tiles worked are high food then 3rd is high production, so 2nd settler is slow but 3rd is quick.
Builderphile
Chieftain
My first build depends on a few factors:
1) how many turns until my capital reaches population 2? I always make sure I start production on a settler as soon as I reach a population of 2, so I like to ensure that, whatever I build first, it can be finished before then.
2) do I have three decent improvable tiles within (or soon to be within) city limits? If the answer is yes, and I can get a builder out before I reach population 2, then I will produce a builder first.
3) what speed am I playing on? IMO getting an early start on military units is more important on slower game speeds because the enemy moves more quickly relative to your ability to respond by building units. On Epic speed, I would be more inclined to start building a warrior or slinger right away, before I am spotted by a barbarian horde or aggressive civ. On online speed, however, you can be more patient and react to threats rather than anticipating them. See some barbarians approaching your city on an online speed game? No problem, you'll have a couple of warriors built/bought in the next 8 turns or so to fend them off. This is not the case on epic speed.
So basically, because I play faster speeds, I prefer to start with builder - but only if I have three improvable tiles, and the builder can be finished before population two. If this is not possible, then scout is the default, and a pretty good one because it prevents barbarians, finds goody huts, finds city states, and finds other civs. It also makes for a good meat shield in the upcoming war because the AI will usually target the scout first.
1) how many turns until my capital reaches population 2? I always make sure I start production on a settler as soon as I reach a population of 2, so I like to ensure that, whatever I build first, it can be finished before then.
2) do I have three decent improvable tiles within (or soon to be within) city limits? If the answer is yes, and I can get a builder out before I reach population 2, then I will produce a builder first.
3) what speed am I playing on? IMO getting an early start on military units is more important on slower game speeds because the enemy moves more quickly relative to your ability to respond by building units. On Epic speed, I would be more inclined to start building a warrior or slinger right away, before I am spotted by a barbarian horde or aggressive civ. On online speed, however, you can be more patient and react to threats rather than anticipating them. See some barbarians approaching your city on an online speed game? No problem, you'll have a couple of warriors built/bought in the next 8 turns or so to fend them off. This is not the case on epic speed.
So basically, because I play faster speeds, I prefer to start with builder - but only if I have three improvable tiles, and the builder can be finished before population two. If this is not possible, then scout is the default, and a pretty good one because it prevents barbarians, finds goody huts, finds city states, and finds other civs. It also makes for a good meat shield in the upcoming war because the AI will usually target the scout first.
if you play on prince and below, id say go for worker. you can even explore with it. higher it goes, more seriously one have to think about defence and exploration.
scout gives benefit of giving era scores every time player meet new civ. dark age can be bad thing as first era if one is not prepared how to deal with it.
same with slinger. it can give benefit and properly used with terrain bonuses, can be quite good. especially if accompanied by warrior or other slinger. and they are very cheap to produce. id say 2 warriors, 3 slingers is very good approach, especially if founded cities on luxuries and cities have 2x2 tiles to work. worker can wait then.
my first priority is to get out second city. build order depends on map, but with focus on this goal.
scout gives benefit of giving era scores every time player meet new civ. dark age can be bad thing as first era if one is not prepared how to deal with it.
same with slinger. it can give benefit and properly used with terrain bonuses, can be quite good. especially if accompanied by warrior or other slinger. and they are very cheap to produce. id say 2 warriors, 3 slingers is very good approach, especially if founded cities on luxuries and cities have 2x2 tiles to work. worker can wait then.
my first priority is to get out second city. build order depends on map, but with focus on this goal.
