First Look: Russia (unofficial Let's Play)

[Abraxis]

Egypt gains 15% faster production for districts and wonders on river. Even if you find a good spot for Holy Site on river (or ignore its adjacency bonus), it's still not as good as half-priced Holy Site. And for Stonehenge which has its own complex location requirements it's vary low chances to build it on the river.

The other candidate for fastest religion is actually Montezuma, which could use builders to speed up districts.

Well stone was pretty common in deserts in civ5, I don't think the requirement would set them back disproportionately.
I didn't realize the bonus was only 15% though, that's kind of a bummer.

As far as Russia goes... I think I'll withhold my judgement until official announcement. 1 production to tundra tiles does seem pretty nice though, depending on how many resources can spawn up there. Their LUA makes them a great pick for Diety as well. Honestly they seem like the perfect civ for attacking Deity with. Production bonus for defense, Border expansion to secure borders against rapidly expanding AI, and tech/civic catchup mechanics.

 

[Paramecium]

Sorry, but how believable is that whole "LEAK"? I can neither write, speak or even read russian. But from fast forwarding in the video I see no hint to it and then someone said just it? I highly doubt it:

1. LUA might be the case but it really sounds very weak. Trade Routes are earned mostly by commercial hubs and harbors, nothing in any matter where Russia is getting any bonus. If it is 1 yield per 3 techs or 1 or both combined, it doesnt really matter, all depends on the balancing. But yeah, you are not Roman, you cant use your trade routes that easily to build your roads.

2. Cossack again? And yeah, the bonus sounds very weak, Is it a Cavalry replacement? So you will have probably 2 copies of horses at that time. Same strength? +5 in own territory or next to your border? Sounds weak to compared to +10 for adjacent hoplite, + 10 for home continent (imperial guard), + 10 in ocean. And nothing special elsewhere?

3. UA: Shoshone are back? Would be fitting, I would like it for Russia, because city tile growth in now quite expansive. But yeah, im still a bit dissy now, is there any UA from CiV exported to CiVI?

4. UD: Highly doubt it. The Madrassa and baths were leaked very early in a livestream build, I believe we have not seen any hint about special things at astrology. Okay, that can be changed. And nothing special, just 1 tile per GP. Yeah, half production cost and no limit, but at least Japan has a the half production, too. And sure my dear Russians, you are not a country that comes to my mind if I think about founding religions.

Conclusion: I might just be ignorant, but I have that smell of a troll in my nose ...

 

[Ebrim]

Yeah, not putting too much stock in this yet. Maybe that's just me hoping for T-34 too much though.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

The more I think about it, the more I feel like the Cossack was a poor choice. They've already been featured in Civ III, Civ IV, and Civ V as Russia's UU, so something new would have been nice. Russian military history offers a ton of other good options. Off the top of my head: the Streltsy (a Musketeer replacement, with poleaxes as well as muskets!), the T-34 (one of the best Tank designs in history, central to the defeat of Nazism), the Katyusha Rocket (an Artillery replacement! Have we ever had one of those?), or the Tu-95 (a Bomber replacement, a major Cold War symbol). I'm sure other posters who know more Russian history can think of many other interesting choices.

The other thing about the Cossack is it's a Cavalry replacement. We've already got one of those! (America's Rough Rider, which looks quite a bit stronger.) There is no unique Tank in Civ VI, and I think there might never be any. Germany, Russia, and America are probably the only Civs for whom it makes sense, and none of them got it. I guess we might get an alternative leader with a special tank, but that would probably require Stalin making the game, which I think is unlikely. (We certainly won't get the alternate leader necessary for a Panzer UU).

The defensive bonus for the Cossack makes good historical sense (Cossacks are probably most famous for fighting fiercely to protect their homeland from Napoleon), but it doesn't exactly strike me as exciting or powerful, gameplay-wise.

 

[Siptah]

4. UD: Highly doubt it. The Madrassa and baths were leaked very early in a livestream build, I believe we have not seen any hint about special things at astrology.

That famous video that leaked madrasa and baths started with astrology already researched. But I agree with you, we should wait for the official release of the civ.

 

[GauntZero]

I think it would actually be fine if they got 1 science/culture for each 2 techs/civics that they dont have.
Per 3 it is too low, but I think per 1 would indeed be very strong.

You could easily leave out 1-2 techs/civics per era and focus more on one stream with techs/civics that get more expensive.
In this way, you would get a bonus for the missed "small techs" that gets more and more as you both missed more each era, and get more trade routes.
In the same momnent you might be the first to get the expensive techs, waiting to buy the cheap ones that you missed sometime later (if you need all of them at all).

Could lead to some interesting strategies.

With the +1 tile for a spent GP...I think it is not enough. After all, it is more or less like a certain amount of money that is fixed in its way to use it.
If they really have to give tiles, then please let it be 2-3 tiles and not only 1.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

It look to be a rather interesting set of abilities.

+1 faith and +1 production from thundra could give you the first parthenon and that could be huge if you pick the thundra pathernon, Russia should thus be a very powerful religious civ. Given that no city is a darin for your long term economy thundra cities are a good idea and these will be much better with Russia. I do not know if you can farm thundra but a thundra-plain hybride city should be awesome especially in the late game.

Unique district: While its special ability is not much, the fact it is a half priced religious district, a very early district is super nice because you will likely get the first religion and the first pathernon and with thundra you should be the religious superpower before the other civ even get started on their religions.

Extra territory is very nice and could save you a huge amount of gold during a game and could also allow you access to good tiles before you otherwise could be working them.

Leader unique ability mean you could ignore building campuses and theater squares completely which is very nice, yes you must be behind but that is two district you do not need to worry about and in return you can focus your effort on building the other districts, especially the commerce hub. It is similar to Arabia's prophet ability in how to use it.

Cossack, a nice defensive focused UU as cavalry it is very fast so it should be able to defend your large empire without much problem.

I see Russia is a very nice expansion focused civ with a very strong religious play in the early game and a very strong production game in the late game. If you ignore campuses and theather squerare should make your late game far better then civs who had to build these districts and thus increase their district cost early on. Russia could thus instead focus on building a strong late game economy with commerce hubs and industrial zones.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

With the +1 tile for a spent GP...I think it is not enough. After all, it is more or less like a certain amount of money that is fixed in its way to use it.
If they really have to give tiles, then please let it be 2-3 tiles and not only 1.

It just seems like overkill to me. Why do they need to get bonus tiles from their unique improvement if they already get bonus tiles from the Civ UA? I'd rather they went in a completely different direction with that unique.

 

[Siptah]

Leader unique ability mean you could ignore building campuses and theater squares completely which is very nice, yes you must be behind but that is two district you do not need to worry about and in return you can focus your effort on building the other districts, especially the commerce hub. It is similar to Arabia's prophet ability in how to use it.

you'll need theater squares for the great work slots though. Otherwise you are defenseless against cultural victories (or you have to spam wonders...). It's nice that you don't need the theater squares for border expansion that much, since you start with bigger territory. So you can build theater districts later.
We'll have to see if the ULA is enough to ignore or mostly ignore campuses. It certainly has the potential for a different play style.

 

[GauntZero]

To be honest, I would have preferred something towards spies

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

If you have a large costline and alot of resorts you are probably safe from a culture victory.

Campuses look to be the worst district in long term because science usefulness is basically zero after you have gotten all techs. Getting them quicker is nice but without the production and economy to use advanced techs campuses is basically a drain for your economy.

 

[Sansa_Stark]

You are joking right? Brazil can easily let you have +2-4 yield per district right from the start of the game. As you build more cities and districts this increases (while you are still close to your start bias at least). Here you get less yield, and only if you are behind. It doesn't kick in from the start because you have to find someone who is further in front than you, have to build the right sort of district to get traders (classical era I think?), they have to be close enough to you to be reachable, and there is the opportunity cost of not using your trader to develop domestic roads.

Imagine you are falling behind and are 6 techs and 3 civics behind. All the other conditions line up AND you would prefer an international TR than a domestic one for what ever reason. By restricting your choice of TR target (presumably at the cost of gold) you can get +2 science +1 culture per trade route, if you have a commercial district/harbour district per city, that comes out to +2 science +1 culture per city where - again - you are using all of your traders to maximise this. Brazil on the other hand will, assuming you can build a campus/holy site/theatre district next to 2 jungle tiles (more should be easy most of the time), you are getting +4 yield per district. Not per city - per district. This absolutely dwarfs when Russia is getting. And Brazil doesn't have to be falling behind (ie: losing the game) for this to kick in, and has it from the ancient era (which is when a row bonus to yield is most powerful), and can do what they want with their traders.

Even in this ideal scenario for Russia, their ability is still not even 1/4 as good as Brazil's.

I am not joking, I was posting that at the time when the latest info was that there was 1/1 ratio (1 culture/science for each missing tech). That's a huge difference, as you presumably agree. As it is now, I'd consider this as an unofficial a pretty unclear leak, so let's wait until we get more clear info.

On a side note, I don't think you are right about (or I don't understand you) Brazil's rainforest bonus. If you build Campus next to 2 rainforests, you get +2, not +4.

Russia as a science civ works. And taking Shoshone's UA will make for a fun game as Russia, but...
This seems incredibly weak. Peter's LUA only works if you're behind, and needs severe rebalancing. The Lavra is incredibly weak, and makes no sense to have a thing that gives you tiles when you already have a thing that gives you way more tiles. And the price is very expensive: 1 GP per tile. When Russia has no GP generation bonus. Heck, Pedro II would be a better leader for Russia than Peter the Great is, for this reason alone (eh, funny how that works).

Before I was worried that Gilgamesh essentially had no LUA, but this is just... Peter has no LUA to speak of, and the only real benefit Russia's UI has is being a Unique District, because the actual unique part of it is too weak to matter.

I don't get that part about getting tiles if there's another thing where you get tiles. And? Norway has almost all bonuses related to naval warfare, Arabia gets various faith bonuses, etc. What is wrong with that?

And Lavra (if leaked info is correct) really seems to have one of the weakest abilities, but as many have notes, it is true ability is that it is unique district. And that is HUGE in case of Holy Site, which is arguably the most powerful district in the game (along with Campus). It just means you can get Holy Site earlier than anybody else, which means religion sooner than almost anybody else (along with Greece and Japan iirc), and above all, you can spam Holy Sites like nobody else. There was a thread before were people argued that there might be no civ with unique Campus or Holy Site at all, since they would be inevitably OP. So I really don't get why you people expect strong unique ability for this specific unique district.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Holy district is the first district you can build if you rush for it. Russia should be the first one to pick its pathernon and the obvious choice is one that effects its holy district thus turning it into a very powerful thing.

Russia could build alot cities near the thundra and quickly put down alot of holy district producing huge amount of faith very early in the game and quickly build up a powerful religion before the other civs even know what is going on.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

I don't get that part about getting tiles if there's another thing where you get tiles. And? Norway has almost all bonuses related to naval warfare, Arabia gets various faith bonuses, etc. What is wrong with that? And Lavra (if leaked info is correct) really seems to have one of the weakest abilities, but as many have notes, it is true ability is that it is unique district. And that is HUGE in case of Holy Site, which is arguably the most powerful district in the game (along with Campus). It just means you can get Holy Site earlier than anybody else, which means religion sooner than almost anybody else (along with Greece and Japan iirc), and above all, you can spam Holy Sites like nobody else. There was a thread before were people argued that there might be no civ with unique Campus or Holy Site at all, since they would be inevitably OP. So I really don't get why you people expect strong unique ability for this specific unique district.

True. But ideally, when a Civ has multiple bonuses in one area, those bonuses will be complementary instead of exactly repeating each other. So Norway gets faster ships and ships that are better at pillaging; Arabia gets a guaranteed religion and extra faith so that the religion they get will be stronger. Whereas Russia's bonus here is just exactly the same thing coming from two different sources.

You're certainly right that merely having a unique district is a really good thing gameplay-wise, but the whole thing still feels kind of lame from a design perspective.

 

[Ulthwithian]

I might point out that I believe Rome is the most likely Civ to get the first Pantheon (ironically appropriate). It can get God-King before anyone else.

Now, Russia (if this is accurate) is likely to fight Japan over the first religion. (They both have half-price Holy Sites; Japan from UA, Russia from UD.) But I honestly do not see how anyone can beat Rome to a Pantheon if Rome chooses God-King.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Russia bonuses have a strong synergy which may not be obvious.

Peter allow Russia to ignore campuses and theater squares which save production for extra builders, extra settlers and extra military thus Russia is likely to become one of the largest empires on the map.

The thundra faith combined with the unique district mean Russia most likely get the first pathernon which allow it to boost its unique district and the first religion so it can choose whatever it want including stuff that boost its holy districts and maybe wats if its needs the extra science (remember no campuses).

Around the time you get the harbour/hub you are probably qute a bit behind in tech but your large well developed empire can quickly put down a hub in every city and then Peters ability comes into play for real giving you extra science and culture in addition to all trade benefits.

Soon after you get the industrial zone which you also build in every city (remember that it have area of effect buildings), civs that built campuses start to fall behind in development because campuses both take valuable district slots and also increase the cost of futher districts thus Russia starts to pull ahead on all fronts.

Later on its large population may actually pull ahead of the campus civs and Peter ability have made its thing keeping Russia not far behind tech and culture leaders, but these leaders are likely not capable of using the stuff they had access to first because they probably do not the production and gold needed but Russia have plenty of both.

Russia could save its faith for great people purchase thus getting the unique district bonus but it may just be better to spread your religion.

Russia large empire may make it a very strong civ to win culture victories with because you can simply build parks and resorts and simply use quantity to win the culture victory. Given that you need faith to get parks Russia do have an advantage here

Extra production may make it a strong canidate for science victory as well because the main limiter to this victory may not be actually the science but the production.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

By the way, does anyone know if Rome's agenda is based on number of tiles or on number of cities? Will Russia and Rome be natural friends or not?

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Peter may like that Rome get alot of culture because I guess he like civs who have great science and culture. So yes Rome and Russia may like each other.

 

[Siptah]

By the way, does anyone know if Rome's agenda is based on number of tiles or on number of cities? Will Russia and Rome be natural friends or not?

It says territory if you hover over the agenda in the diplomacy screen. So I assume cities don't matter, only territory.
Considering his ULA, it would make sense, if Peter liked civs that are good or even ahead in culture and science.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

It says territory if you hover over the agenda in the diplomacy screen. So I assume cities don't matter, only territory.
Considering his ULA, it would make sense, if Peter liked civs that are good or even ahead in culture and science.

Nice. I like that Civ VI has pairs of Civs who will naturally like each other (e.g. Russia and Rome, Spain and Kongo) as well as pairs who will naturally be at each other's throats (Greece and Germany). Kinda fun.