Fix the Longbowman!

[fitchn]

While playing PTW yesterday, it occured to me that there is a slight 'problem' with the longbowman. The longbowman has an ADM of 4.1.1, a cost of 40, and comes with Invention. However, the 'new' Medieval Infantry unit has an ADM of 4.2.1, a cost of 40, and comes with Feudalism, which is BEFORE invention. Why would anyone build the inferior and later longbowman?

I realize that the Medieval Infantry requires Iron, but both units should still have a legitimate use at some point in the game. Perhaps make the bowman cost less, give it an extra attack point (5.1.1), or give it a slight bombardment value (1 or 2 should suffice). Any thoughts?

 

[warpstorm]

The main reason for the longbow in Civ3 and PTW is so that you have an attack unit if you don't have iron. If you have iron, don't build it.

Having said that, they are more important in C3C.

 

[kring]

I agree with warpstorm on both points.

Lack of iron occurs frequently enough in my games to make them a viable unit, even before the changes in C3C.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I simply modded the longbow unit to give it a bombard range of '0'. This way, a stack of archers could do a HELL of a lot of damage to melee units, before they get to attack but, once those melee units get within range, then the archers are TOAST (without Swordsmen and the like to defend them !) In fact, all of my ranged units have this 'defensive bombardment' ability-though it kind of evens out once you reach the age of Riflemen !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Lab Monkey]

There's a mod with PTW (Beta tester mod, I think it's called) with lots of improvements. A significant one being the longbow attack of 5. Trust me, it makes all the difference.

 

[Pirate]

Aussie_Lurker's strategy seems like the most realistic and fun way to do it. Short range bombardment, just before the battle starts - perfect. Kind of a "first strike" isn't it?

 

[Dr. Dr. Doktor]

There is one difference. You can upgrade archers to longbow men. Archers take less time to build than swordsmen. Then it should be possible to have some cities which are capable of building one archer per turn. Say you have set science so that you will get invention in 20 turns. Then each city with a production of 20 or more can produce 20 archers. Then of course you will have a large stash of cash and one leader. The leader you use to rush Michelangelos workshop, and the next turn you upgrade all your archers. You now have a larger army than you would have been able to build if you had only built swordsmen. Then you mix some pikemen with them, and you are ready to counquer your neighbour. After all one pikeman and one longbow is better and more inexpensive than two medieval swordsmen - in my oppinion at least.

 

[eventhorizon]

in c3c, your longbowman will have defensive first strike (something like 0-range-bombard)

 

[Tavis]

All of the units in the "archer" unit tree have defensive 1st strike - exactly the same thing as 0-range-bombard. Finally a reason to garrison them.

 

[ToadFaerie]

Be careful when applying real-world logic to these games. The real world is too complex. There are genuine debates regarding the effectiveness of bows, and especially the often over-hyped longbow, against well armored opponents.