Fixing this franchises linear view of technology and society

[OranHarken]

Civ 6 feels like the new mechanics introduced did not do enough to differentiate it, the 33/33/33 ration of remove, tweak, new I think has failed Firaxis this time. Splinting culture into another tech tree didn't really accomplish anything because it's such a narrow tree with many policies requiring both it's predecessors to advance anyway it's more of a choice of what you get first, not what you specialize in.

I think that they needed to go with a non-linear view of technology/social history to make this game different enough from Civ 5 for everyone who played 500+ hours. I mean think about it, the bronze age only happened before the Iron age because it took a long time for blast furnace construction to propagate but that was entirely happenstancal, not inherent. Jumping straight from stone tools to iron is more the feasible if concrete to make blast furnaces was discovered earlier. Now the reason that is so critical is because concrete was basically invented by someone trying to make "the best mud bricks ever™" and mixed in the right amount of volcanic ash and limestone into a mud brick. That could happen during the stone age, that has happened multiple independent times around the world in our history. THE IS NO SOCIAL OR TECHNOLOGICAL PERQUISITE TO SOMEONE FIGURING IT OUT, THE ONLY REASON THIS FRANCHISE ASSOCIATES IT WITH THE LATE CLASSICAL AGE IS THAT IS WHEN THE OLDEST RECIPES WE FOUND WRITTEN WERE WRITTEN, WE KNOW IT EXISTED LONG BEFORE THAT BUT NO ONE WANTED THEIR PERSONAL FORMULA STOLEN SO THEY DID NOT WRITE IT DOWN AND IT WAS PASSED DOWN ORALLY. THIS WAS THE RESULT OF THE CHOICES OF HOW PEOPLE USED THE TECHNOLOGY, SOMETHING THAT IS NOT INHERENT TO THE NATURE OF THE TECHNOLOGY.

The fact this franchise has never even attempted as separating out what happened when in history due to what circumstances related to real civilizations spawn locations in a game that does not use the real world spawn locations of civilizations is just a failure of logic. In a world where the Roman Empire shared a border with China the historical economic and political factors that resulted in the rise of various government types, economic models and technological advances would be totally different than our history but the game has for half a dozen iterations now maintained a totally linear view of these events that are inline with our history is very maddening to me.

What can be done about it? Is it even possible for something of this scope to work in a mod? Would this decend into such a cluster fudge the AI would be hopeless?

 

[Drakul]

I was thinking about a spider web like tech tree devided in to different tech sectors. Military(naval,air,land sector separate)industrial,infrastructure,computers etc . In the military sector you select tech based for your military and to improve it or get access to better units.Industrial is related to your production buidlings and some wonders,infrastructure to roads,railroads,housing etc. Computers unlocked in the information era.Adding a special project sector where you can focus on being the first civ that produces something that is considered a breakthrough like aircraft carrier project,tank project,penicilin project,founder of the olympic games,fifa world cup etc,etc. Civics to dived in different sectors economy,faith,culture,tourism where you select what to research. Also you should not be avaible to get everything some techs or civics should cancel others out. Also you can research at the same time 2 diferent techs. You get special theming bonuses for working 2 sectors that are compatible

 

[Siptah]

I was thinking about a spider web like tech tree devided in to different tech sectors. Military(naval,air,land sector separate)industrial,infrastructure,computers etc . In the military sector you select tech based for your military and to improve it or get access to better units.Industrial is related to your production buidlings and some wonders,infrastructure to roads,railroads,housing etc. Computers unlocked in the information era.Adding a special project sector where you can focus on being the first civ that produces something that is considered a breakthrough like aircraft carrier project,tank project,penicilin project,founder of the olympic games,fifa world cup etc,etc. Civics to dived in different sectors economy,faith,culture,tourism where you select what to research. Also you should not be avaible to get everything some techs or civics should cancel others out.

Did you play Civ:BE?

 

[Drakul]

Nope. Is simply not just my style. I like to keep it realistic as possible haha

 

[Siptah]

BE hat a tech 'tree' similar to what you propose. At least it was a spider web. But not as strictly 'sectored' as you proposed. You could ignore some really basic techs if you didn't want to use the stuff it unlocks. Was a nice idea (especially considering it is in the future and not history).

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

BE hat a tech 'tree' similar to what you propose. At least it was a spider web. But not as strictly 'sectored' as you proposed. You could ignore some really basic techs if you didn't want to use the stuff it unlocks. Was a nice idea (especially considering it is in the future and not history).

BE's 'web' was actually linear, just linear in all directions. There were no real 'cross connections' and so no web. The best thing about it, which I thought they would follow up on for Civ VI, was that technology was essentially divided into Major Techs and Minor Techs, the latter being sub-sets of the former.

Put this in an historical context, and the Tech Tree could be the current 'linear' Technologies we're used to, but under each Tech a set of Applications (for lack of a better word).

So, under Masonry might be an Application of: Concrete, BUT to research Concrete you need either a Technology somewhat in the future - like Molecular Chemistry - OR access to a Volcano (tephra, or volcanic ash).

Bronze-Working would be a pretty basic Technology, but the Applications might be Bronze Tools - giving a 'boost' to Masonry, by the way; Bronze Weapons - which makes Spearmen possible but also gives a 'boost' to a Civic involving Heroic Warriors (Iliad, anyone?), and Alloys - which is actually required to make Bronze, but here it refers to applying that knowledge to other metals, which would increase basic Production and 'Boost' research towards Metallurgy later on.

ANY Tech Tree should have much, much more interaction with the 'soft' technologies - the 'Civics' as they are calling them in Civ VI. Many military units, especially, have more to do with the psychology and sociology of the culture than their technological development: Iron working can get you either iron swords or the iron-tipped spears of the Phalanx, depending on which you choose to develop and use - and that choice is based on surroundings (terrain), and the thought process of the Civ.

'Vectoring', which sounds similar to what SMAC did long ago (still one of the best Sci-Fi games EVER) but the problem is that most Technologies can be applied to several Vectors: Concrete allows building of waterproof wharfs and piers for harbors - it is a Trade technology. It also allows/makes possible certain construction, like the Pantheon's concrete dome or aqueducts - it is a Production technology. And of course, it allows the construction of Fortifications - it is a Military technology. More importantly, though, it is not Required for any of these things: ordinary stone and wood will build all or most of them, but Concrete makes it easier, and may end you in technological directions not obvious without it.

Civ has never gotten the interaction between Technology, Sociology, Civics, and Surroundings right. When they said Civ VI was going to place more emphasis on the terrain I thought they were heading in that direction, but they took only baby steps.