Forbidden Palace, Final Choice

[Sir Donald III]

I'm about to go to work, but it seems to me that the start of our Golden Age is the time to construct the FP, if we do it without a Leader.

The Choices as determined from the previous poll are Odawara, Antium, and Veii (which got in as an "other").

So: 48 Hours (or until Next TC), Let's do it.

 

[TimBentley]

Let's compare the corruption reduction in Odawara and Rome(I wouldn't want to manually calculate the numbers for the FP in Veii). First number is corruption with the FP in Odawara, the second is with the FP in Rome, and the last number is the current corruption.

Rome-20%/2%/80%
Doomsville-9%/12%/53%
Odawara-13%/1%/26%
Balder's Gate-13%/9%/72%
Regent Town-35%/39%/47%
Ravenna-28%/12%/88%
Corrino-12%/28%/30%
En'Gha-9%/20%/21%
Hispalis-37%/9%/95%
Gerunshi-28%/32%/60%
TDB-28%/37%/39%

In addition, corruption would be 91 gold with the FP in Odawara, 98 gold with the FP in Rome, and currently is 136 gold. Note that these numbers do not consider the possibility of new land. The south seems to be a more popular opinion for continued war (or there is the thought that war should be halted).

Also note that it would take a longer time to build the FP in Rome than in Odawara. 94 turns for Rome, 13 turns for Odawara. That sways my vote to Odawara.

 

[invy]

Thanks for info Tim.
Currently Odawara is much better choice then Rome, but in the future (if we get all southlands) Rome will be better placed. Since this is important very important decision I would appreciate more 'professional' suggestions so citizens (and me) can decide better.
IMO I wouldn't like to wait 90 turns to finish Forbidden Palace in Rome.

I have one suggestion tho: We can speed up building FP (especially in a city with low production - as Rome) by switching to Library. Then hurry the production. Then switch to more expensive improvement, i.e. Colosseum for example and again hurry the production. We can cut production time in half this but it will take some gold. We have large amounts of gold now so we should consider this option.
Note that we can build other wonders this way.

I will wait more before voting...

 

[Civanator]

DO not build it. We still haven't finished expanding, and courthouses do well enough against corruption.

 

[invy]

We have to start building it if we want to have FP before 19th century. We already know where are we going to expand -> SOUTH. And now is the right time to start building it - its Golden Age. We know that the best place would be somewhere in this area: Doomsville - Rome - Veii - Odawara. One of that cities will make good place for Forbidden Palace.

 

[Epimethius]

Odawara is in a central location for the continent and country, and would complete the palace in 13 turns (to Rome's whopping 94). The Odawara location also reduces more corruption than Rome. Rome should be rebuilding its improvements and population, which will take it a while, and Veii isn't even ours. Odawara, on the other hand, is a quicker build and more advantageous location.

Vote For Odawara

 

[blackheart]

We need to hold off on the FP until we know our long long term goals, whether we want world domination, southern domination, or peace.

 

[zorven]

I just thought I would make TimBentley's table a little easier to read and throw in the average corruption for each scenario.

FP in....	Odwa  Rome  none

Rome		20% /  2% / 80%
Doomsville	 9% / 12% / 53%
Odawara		13% /  1% / 26%
Balder's Gate	13% /  9% / 72%
Regent Town	35% / 39% / 47%
Ravenna		28% / 12% / 88%
Corrino		12% / 28% / 30%
En'Gha		 9% / 20% / 21%
Hispalis	37% /  9% / 95%
Gerunshi	28% / 32% / 60%
TDB		28% / 37% / 39%

Average		21%   18%   56%

 

[classical_hero]

We need to hold off on the FP until we know our long long term goals, whether we want world domination, southern domination, or peace.

I think that alot of people would want world domination. That is what I want.

EDIT. I would like to change my vote from Veii to Don't Build FP Yet.

 

[Epimethius]

Am I the only one who noticed WE DON'T HAVE VEII?!

And when we do, its not exactly in the center of the continent. Right now we're clamboring to attack the South. What makes you think once we're done we won't be doing the same to the north? Look at last time. We conquered the entire world. And the north is far larger and will suffer from worse corruption. Odawara is quick, central, easy, and realistic, since we won't have to attack our allies and partically level the town before building a wonder in it.

Remember:
Building in Odawara takes 1/9 the time Rome would.
Odawara is centrally located for the entire continent.
Odawara is in the center of what would be a very productive area were it not for corruption.
Odawara was not damaged by the war, and does not need any basic improvements, unlike Rome or Veii.
Odawara is actually within our control, also unlike Veii.

While we're voting for Veii, why not put Bangalore up there? Or Tenochtitlan? We don't have those either. Probably never will.

 

[Ashburnham]

While I agree with you, Epi, that Veii is not a viable option at the moment, there is little doubt that we will be in possession of it before very long. All of our military minds seem to be focused on an Iroqouis war in the near future. However, I still support Rome as the location of the FP.

 

[invy]

Its better not to build it at all now then to build it in wrong location. We can build it later when we aquire large buget by hurrying improvements...

 

[Chieftess]

I think it should be further north... once we take out the Zulus. Odawara is just too close to the capital...

@Tim - How did you get those figures?

@Epi - That's why it says "when captured" in the poll.


Looking at the save, Odawara is already our 3rd most productive city (Fanatikku at 21spt, and Zojoji at 20spt with micromanagement, but less growth), and it's got plenty of food for hill support to compensate for its' corruption.

Also, you must remember that these values are Golden Age inflated. Corruption appears to be magnified during this time.

 

[invy]

Hmm.. it should be further south once we take iro's and bab's land

 

[Strider]

Rome, were not likely to get Veii any time soon.

Edit: 5000.....

 

[Epimethius]

Even if we are going to turn on our allies, keep this in mind that since we first contacted the Babylonians we've been scrabling for war. We finally did it agains the Romans, and immediately we're plotting to take on our very allies the momen we can. This certainly points to our taking the Southern part of the continent. But why think we're going to stop there? I wouldn't be surprised (or happy) were we to take the entire continent, if not the world. And if we do, Veii won't be a very good spot. The north would be rampant with corruption. Odawara is in the center of the continent, so it will be useful no matter where we expand. Plus its in a productive region that suffers from corruption, so building it there will only improve productivitiy.

 

[Sir Donald III]

We. Lost. Epi.

Although, not by enough of a margin that, if we don't get an FP by the time we go to war with the Zulu, I can't reconsider with, say, Bapedi...

 

[Epimethius]

Dammit. I wanted to be mayor of the second capital.

*quietly signals to construction workers to stop building giant pagoda*

But on the bright side, at least I get to be corrupt for longer!

*embezzles money from courthouse construction*

 

[Civman2004]

Thanks for info Tim.
I have one suggestion tho: We can speed up building FP (especially in a city with low production - as Rome) by switching to Library. Then hurry the production. Then switch to more expensive improvement, i.e. Colosseum for example and again hurry the production. We can cut production time in half this but it will take some gold. We have large amounts of gold now so we should consider this option.
Note that we can build other wonders this way.

I'm not sure about conquests but I'm pretty sure that doesn't work in Vanilla. Once you rush production, you can't switch to a wonder I believe?

 

[invy]

Hm.. I'll have to double check..