Forbidden Palace to strong?

[Fredgerd]

I know its available to everyone, but it seems like a balance issue to me since only one person per game can get it and whoever gets it has a massive edge in diplomacy which is arguable important for every victory type, except for MAYBE domination.

 

[Talcove]

I think that the main problem is that it is the only wonder which provides extra delegates. I agree that it, being tied to patronage, should be the wonder providing the most extra delegates, but there should certainly be at least one other wonder providing an extra delegate.

 

[cakes]

i don't think so. just get more CS allies

 

[Fredgerd]

i don't think so. just get more CS allies

CS allies don't do anything early. By that time you can already have secured some pretty silly stuff. It seems like I have to focus all my medieval strategies on getting Forbidden Palace, no matter what I'm trying to do. Even with domination I get it because having the world council host certainly isn't bad for that and the -10% unhappiness in all the cities I've razed and replaced with fresh cities is absurd.

 

[zukenft]

CS allies matters once everyone hits industrial.
this means on standard speed there's usually just one resolution where CS allies still doesn't count, and on larger maps the congress is founded so late that the the next era comes before the first resolution.

 

[Fredgerd]

Given how bad the AI is at diplomacy, one resolution is enough to get World religion. And even if not, the CS are a lot less consequential for a while. 2 delegates is a pretty serious edge.

 

[Wodan]

It doesn't even really make sense for the Forbidden Palace to give extra delegates to the World Congress. they seem like competing philosophies.

 

[whyidie]

As someone who prioritizes Forbidden Palace, I don't think its too strong. When I don't get it, my game doesn't go to waste. When I do get it, I still have to focus on CS relations if I want to capitalize on it.

Its not like building a strategy around a strong Petra fueled second city, only to get beat to Petra and be left with a...desert city.

Its not auto-win, but it sure is nice to have. Thats the way Wonders should be.


So no, its not too strong.

 

[That Other Guy]

I wish it scaled based on the number of civs that were in the game initially. Founding the UN and getting the forbidden palace is almost always enough to let you ram your religion through as world religion without any support (read: two extra votes). That's enough of a boost to do the same thing with your ideology (2 more votes). At this point, you've nearly guaranteed yourself one of the top two seats in the WC for the rest of the game.

I imagine this is somewhat more difficult on huge maps.

 

[redwings1340]

I wish it scaled based on the number of civs that were in the game initially. Founding the UN and getting the forbidden palace is almost always enough to let you ram your religion through as world religion without any support (read: two extra votes). That's enough of a boost to do the same thing with your ideology (2 more votes). At this point, you've nearly guaranteed yourself one of the top two seats in the WC for the rest of the game.

I imagine this is somewhat more difficult on huge maps.

It's enough to get the world religion through if you're fast about it and discover the world congress, but alone, it's definitely not enough to get an ideology through unless you're really fast with your factories. I've been starting to get ideologies when teching to radio recently, and by that point the world is in the industrial era and this building is a boost but not super op.

I agree with the above poster who said that this building is nice but nonessential to any strategy. I love having it, but if I don't get it, my games still go ok. The world congress is cool because sometimes, even if I have the votes necessary to pass something, I don't always propose it because of the diplomatic repercussions, especially if I don't have a military and 1 wrong move will provoke wars with 3 other civs.

 

[civ54lyfe]

only from the way i play BNW (never taking Patronage) i'm happy with Forbidden Palace as it is, b/c the AI always builds it and builds it usually ASAP. i like stronger AIs. but i guess it could make a Patronage human player too powerful vs. AI.

 

[Montov]

I think that the main problem is that it is the only wonder which provides extra delegates. I agree that it, being tied to patronage, should be the wonder providing the most extra delegates, but there should certainly be at least one other wonder providing an extra delegate.

I agree completely. It raises the question: which Wonder(s) would be suitable?
I think Red Fort and Pentagon.

 

[Byzantine Bomb]

It's been my experience that a civ with many city state allies can always defeat a civ with few to no city state allies with the Forbidden Palace. It's a good wonder to have but not necessary, though I try my hardest to get it, like Stonehenge and Petra. It would be nice to have more wonders, even just one more, that gave delegates.