Foreign Affairs Proposal for June 20 Turn

[chiefpaco]

Iroquois
Last 2gpt gift ran out. Propose a 3gpt gift to supplement the 1gpt gift we are currently giving them.

India:
Negotiated Peace with Iroquois as soon as MPP expired. FA lets them off the hook as it seemed they were only fighting to honour their MPP with Greece. Declared war on China possibly via MPP, but it doesn't matter - China is not a favoured nation of ours.

Greece:
Their aggression has been noticed by the world and now they face anarchy and fight Rome, Iroquois, China, and Babylon. We should not be blind to their attrocities. FA moves we start military production to prepare ourselves for action should their treachery continue. Our ROP with them expires in 11. I move we prepare to be able fight them in approximately 11 turns.

Espionage:
I move we strike a trade for it, for the purpose of establising an Intelligence Agency. We could then use spy missions to make other nations declare war on us, when we need to so maninpulative. Its price varies:
India - 480 gold.
Iroquois - 495 gold.
Babylon - 530 gold.
Zulu - 540 gold.

We could use a resource or luxury to offset the price:
Iroquois will offer Espionage and 210 gold for Rubber (1 extra).
Babylon will offer Espionage and 11 gold for Saltpeter (2 extra).
Babylon will offer Espionage for Incense (1 extra) and 8 gold.
Zulu will offer Espionage and 20 gold for Coal (1 extra).

We could use a trade embargo to offset the price:
Iroquois will offer an Embargo vs. Greece and Espionage for 200 gold.

We could also use tech to offset the price. However, I would prefer to keep the tech out of my proposal. The FA Dept. asks for the esteemed Trade Leader's input on these deals as well as the views of the citizens.

I also request a plan from the Domestic Department to build the Intelligence Agency in the case that we can strike a deal. The best deal to me from the above options seems to be the Babylon Saltpeter or Incense deal.

 

[Cyc]

I would like to see the Intelligence Agency built (in Khatovar, of course). Covert missions are expensive, therefore rarely used in my games, but every once in a while you need one or two.
I believe the Babs/saltpeter would be a good approach.

 

[crabapple]

Or maybe give rubber and 210 gold to Iroquis so they can defend themseles in the war. And we should hurry the construction of Intelligence Agency before the warring civilizations in democracy fall into anarchy so we can sneak a spy in then.

 

[Chieftess]

I think the Iroquois are starting to turn the tides, especially with other nations coming to their aid. Also, as much as I dislike the Babylonians, saltpeter is fast becoming an outdated resource. Riflemen no longer require it, and it's vastly a middle aged resource. So, I would support the trading of this resource.

--> Babylon will offer Espionage and 11 gold for Saltpeter (2 extra).

I would consider contacting the Iroquois about the trade embargo after our trade with Babylon.

As I'm looking at the map, A few of my traders from the STG called me and said they noticed a black, liquidy subtance during their travels. It's reported to burn pretty quickly, and is apparently only in turndra and desert. Here are the possible nations that might have this strange resource:

Us.
Aztecs (desert)
Greece (desert)
Babylon (tundra)
India (desert)
Iroquois (desert)
England (desert)

 

[eyrei]

I support trading saltpeter to the Babylonians to get espionage, as we have no use for it, and it will have a minimal effect on the world around us. A trade embargo against Greece would make me very happy, especially if I get to tell Alexander myself.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I favor taking the saltpeter deal, it is getting something for nothing. I would wait to deal rubber to Hiawatha until he discovers another tech we like.

Regarding a Trade Embargo with Greece, would that not let him off the hook for the 44 gold per turn that he is paying for Medicine?

 

[Chieftess]

If the war continues, and the deal runs out, then yes, we could enforce an embargo.

 

[chiefpaco]

Originally posted by Bill_in_PDX
Regarding a Trade Embargo with Greece, would that not let him off the hook for the 44 gold per turn that he is paying for Medicine?

That is not my understanding of the Trade Embargo. I think it just stops luxury and resource trading. Can someone clarify this? I think it only lets you sign if those deals are off so thats why I think it works this way.

I've got 3 supporters for the saltpeter deal and 1 for the rubber. This is not to say that Trade can not do something else or trade rubber for something else. These were just FA's recommendations.

BTW, I would not sign a Trade Embargo without a vote first. However, I am considering one for next turn and thats why the discussion is starting now.

 

[Cyc]

I've been looking and haven't found anything yet. It makes sense, tho, no trade is no trade. We would probably lose the 44 gpt. I'll keep looking, are you running any test game scenarios?

 

[chiefpaco]

I just tested. In a previous game, I had a gpt deal to me and then signed a TE and the gpt still came in, even on the next turn. In fact, I could still deal techs and make Diplomatic agreements with the embargoed civ.

The reason I suggest a Trade Embargo of Greece is so that they can not gain rubber. They do not have any in their borders. Closest rubber to them would be in Cumae (China). Potential civs that could deal rubber to Greece (by my map):
China, India, England (not at Replaceable parts yet though)

China is at war with Greece so they obviously won't trade. India is already trading with Greece so we can not get a Trade Embargo with them. I propose we keep checking India to get a Trade Embargo because denying Greece Rubber will no doubt strategically work against them.

China, Babylon, Rome, and Iroquois are fighting Greece. Should we assist China in fighting Greece by signing a ROP with China? It would facilitate their troop movement to defend Cumae.

 

[Lecky]

Espionage and Intel Agency would be of great benefit to the Military. The Saltpeter deal with the Babs seems like our best option.

 

[Shaitan]

Although they've risen a bit in my eyes, I still don't trust China enough to give them a ROP.

I also prefer the saltpeter deal to the Babs.

Trade embargo will break any resource and luxury deals we currently have and prevent new ones for 20 turns. It does not affect diplomatic and tech deals. I support an embargo against Greece. If we do this we should sign an embargo with every nation possible.

 

[Eklektikos]

CP: Could you let us know how much it would cost for each embargo?

I agree with Shaitan that if we go for this option we should sign up as many nations as possible, but I think that we need to know how expensive this would be before we go much further.

 

[Lecky]

Is there some point where, short of an actual attack on ourselves, we should intervene and join the war? What, for example, if Greece takes Cumae and gets the rubber? Do we intervene at this point?

 

[Shaitan]

I would say that if we are invited in again by the Iros or if another high ranking civ asks us to participate that we should agree.

 

[chiefpaco]

Trade Embargos do not cost us. They could actually make money for us. Most civs will empty their bank to get a trade embargo of Greece. Only the Zulu will offer no more than a straight-up TE. China, Babylon, Rome, and Iroquois are at war with Greece so they can not trade anyway. Aztecs, England, and India are presently trading with Greece so they will not agree to an embargo.

I'm not sure Trade Embargo deals break current resource/luxury deals because the other nation won't let me negotiate one if there is a current deal. I also can't sign one for any price if they are already trading with the target nation. I don't think we're trying to bankrupt anyone at this point, especially the civs fighting Greece. FA will accept moving Greece to a Suspect Nation in light of their attrocities until the results of the citizen poll come in.

Let's then sign straight-up Trade Embargos with China, Babylon, Rome, Iroquois, and Zulu, given that it won't disrupt Greece's payments to us. I propose to also re-check India, Aztecs, and England after 5 turns are played to see if any more can be signed, especially India.

The 48 hours between turns has really handicapped me for exploring options on handling Greece. I expect a fuller process for the next round. I wish I could act quicker but I will not advocate declaring war or making/accepting alliances without a citizen vote preceeded by discussion. In any case, I would consider this the discussion for a vote between the next turns.

 

[Eklektikos]

No cost to us? Now that's what I like to hear! I fully support signing straight-up embargos with all nations who are amenable. Lets give Alexander a sound beating with the diplomatic stick

 

[Zur]

CT:A few of my traders from the STG called me and said they noticed a black, liquidy subtance during their travels

Hooray for black liquidy substance!!