Foreign Affairs Proposal for June 26 turn

[chiefpaco]

New Public Opinion polls have altered some of the stances the FA is taking on our neighbours. Here is my proposal for next round. Please discuss here.

Turn 0
Iroquois (Favoured Nation, Annoyed)
Gift 5 gpt

We are currently gifting them 3gpt to expire in 2 turns. This will replace that gift. I'm really trying to get them happy. They are not at war with anyone and may have a few troops left from their previous wars. I even considered gifting them 1 luxury.

Rome (Able Partner, Annoyed)
I'm not terribly worried about their military, but a gift of some sort may ease their tension towards us. We have a lot of choices:
horses, medicine or steam power, Ivory, gold.

Recall that we previously gifted them with Magnetism. It appears their research seems to be headed nowhere and they are in anarchy at the moment so it may get worse. Medicine does not really give them anything so FA recommends that.

Greece (Suspect Nation, Furious)
Cancel the ROP we have with them. When I consider that they are furious towards us, at war, Communist, their history, and them being our immediate neighbour makes them very suspect for an attack.

Aztecs (Suspect Nation, Annoyed)
Renegotiate peace for all their 77 gold. Opportunistic extortion.

Trade Embargos
I think we no longer need the thick embargos against Greece as they are clearly losing ground in the war. Some of our embargos will likely expire during this round. Let them expire if they expire. If they do not expire, leave them and we can deal with them next round.

 

[donsig]

The PIA will be operative in four turns. Any ideas for using it?

(PIA = Phoenatic Intelligence Agency)

 

[chiefpaco]

Excellent forsight, Donsig. Thank you. I think I'd rather see the costs for using the PIA before using it.

I think planting spies are free but I can't remember all the details of the IA. We could use the spy to start a war with any target of ours since discovered spies draw a war declaration. I think we should note that this is possible after turn 4.

 

[eyrei]

Planting new spies usually costs between 150 and 300 gold. If the first attempt in a turn fails, it is basically impossible to have success with that civ on that turn. So, unless we want a war, only one attempt should be made per turn. Once we have a spy in a civ, we can view the exact makeup of their military, so we no longer have to depend on our in-game military advisor.

When deciding if we should plant a spy (I would eventually like to have spies in all other nations), several things should be taken into account. First, the relative military strength of our militaries should be checked. If our military is stronger, one or two failed attempts at planting a spy will probably not cause a war.

If military strength is equal, other treaties and trade agreements should be assessed. If we have a ROP and/or several luxury/resource trades going, a declaration of war is unlikely. If we have an MPP, it is very unlikely. If we have a military alliance it is very unlikely. If our relationship with the civ is polite or gracious, and we have any of the above arrangements in place, the likelihood of war is very, very small. Gold per turn payments from us for something they have already delivered will also reduce the chances of war.

If the civ is paying us gold/turn for something we already delivered (such as a technology) war is very likely unless we have several other trades that benefit them. This situation is exacerbated by anything other than polite relations. If we are at war with a friend or ally of the targetted nation, there is a very good chance they will declare war.

If a civs military strength is greater than ours, only the best relations will deter a declaration of war. Likewise, only a serious advantage in military strength will deter war if the targetted civ is furious.

That said, as situations arise where we can plant a spy with only a small chance of starting a war, we should do so, as this information is extremely valuable to the military and foreign affairs departments.

Currently, we should try to plant a spy in Greece as soon as the PIA is finished, as I doubt they will declare war, and even if they do, so be it.

 

[crabapple]

When I plant spies I often plant it in anarchy then it easier to be succesfull, now then they are warring we should wait until any democracy falls into anarchy and then plant spies.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I agree that we should gift Hiawatha at 5gpt.

I would gift Rome with horses and Medicine.

I would love to get a spy into Greece as soon as possible, however that would in my opinion provoke war, as they are currently communist, and would quite likely catch us in the act.

I think any decision to plant spies should be a poll due to the obvious risk of war breaking out.

You wouldn't be looking to get that war going now would you Eyrei? ;-)

Bill
...in PDX...where happy folks go on vacation

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Bill_in_PDX
I agree that we should gift Hiawatha at 5gpt.

I would gift Rome with horses and Medicine.

I would love to get a spy into Greece as soon as possible, however that would in my opinion provoke war, as they are currently communist, and would quite likely catch us in the act.

I think any decision to plant spies should be a poll due to the obvious risk of war breaking out.

You wouldn't be looking to get that war going now would you Eyrei? ;-)

Bill
...in PDX...where happy folks go on vacation

I definately agree that citizens should be polled anytime we attempt to plant a spy if we are not already at war with that nation. I would love for Greece to declare war on us right now. A couple of their cities would be nice additions to Phoenatica, and one more nation at war with them would probably push them into extinction, removing a threat on our borders.

This is not in any way the opinion of the domestic department. Now that my retirement draws near, I can start to give free reign to my warmongering side.

 

[chiefpaco]

I'm selecting horses as a turn 0 gift and medicine as a possible turn 5 gift if relations do not improve.

I will study the costs of spies and espionage between the next turn and will not make any recommendations on these during chat because of the great point made by Bill_in_PDX.