founding or not founding

[Thibix Magnus]

is founding a religion, or conquering one, required on higher difficulties? Immortal, deity? Can you win peacefully without, or is not founding the cue to go all in on war, whatever your civ is?

 

[crdvis16]

It's a pretty big handicap to not control a religion. You can still get the follower beliefs from another religion but founders in particular are often really strong and hurt to miss out on.

I'm sure it's possible to go without, but I know that in my immortal/deity games I pretty much always plan to found or conquer a religion.

 

[CrazyG]

I seriously doubt you could win on the most recent version without any war and without leading a religion.

 

[Stalker0]

The only time I think you can get away with not having a religion controlled is if your neighbor's religions have a lot of religious buildings. When you can get a lot of those buildings in every city, the bonuses can make up for the controller bonuses you would otherwise get.

To a point, its still pretty tricky.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

You can win on Deity without a religion in the right circumstances, but it's much much harder than with religion.

 

[Thibix Magnus]

How about Venice? If you manage to conquer a religion, your holy city will be a puppet... I guess you only get half the founder yields there? Still better than none I suppose.

I'm in a march 1st version, immortal venice, couldn't found, trying peaceful, will see soon enough... statecraft-diplomacy is maybe the least religious-reliant win, at least for Venice, as the constraint is more the paper and not going too fast allying city states and angering everyone, rather than yields (money is not a problem).

For other civilizations, if you conquer 2 neighbours but you prefer the second religion, does it become your official one once you spread that second religion to the first holy city? Haven't tried it yet.

 

[azum4roll]

How about Venice? If you manage to conquer a religion, your holy city will be a puppet... I guess you only get half the founder yields there? Still better than none I suppose.

I'm in a march 1st version, immortal venice, couldn't found, trying peaceful, will see soon enough... statecraft-diplomacy is maybe the least religious-reliant win, at least for Venice, as the constraint is more the paper and not going too fast allying city states and angering everyone, rather than yields (money is not a problem).

For other civilizations, if you conquer 2 neighbours but you prefer the second religion, does it become your official one once you spread that second religion to the first holy city? Haven't tried it yet.

I think you need to use an inquisitor on your first holy city to make your conquered religion official. And you lose all your faith.

 

[CrazyG]

How about Venice? If you manage to conquer a religion, your holy city will be a puppet... I guess you only get half the founder yields there? Still better than none I suppose.

The half penalty wouldn't affect any of the founder beliefs themselves because that penalty doesn't affect bonus yields.There are buildings for your holy city, which would get halved, but that's not really a big deal.

 

[Thibix Magnus]

thanks both, good to know.

@CrazyG does it apply to permanent yields per turn too? like in adobe of peace? Or are bonus yields only the instant ones?

 

[CrazyG]

@CrazyG does it apply to permanent yields per turn too? like in adobe of peace? Or are bonus yields only the instant ones?

"Bonus yields" are the not per turn yields, such as 10 culture when constructing a building as progress. Typically these yields aren't calculated or predicted by the game in a clear way, they are tied to some event. So if your city view displays a yield, it isn't a bonus yield. I forget what adobe of peace is (recent name change?) but it should follow this pattern. Also I think puppets don't have penalty to golden age points.

None of the founder beliefs will be halved by Venice's thing. Only two are not bonus yields, and the percent bonuses for theocratic rule or divine inheritance are additive, not multiplicative, so you still get +20% or 15% either way. In fact, mathematically it would actually be more impactful in a puppet than a regular city. Some enhancer beliefs will be affected by the penalty though, if its a direct per turn yield it will get hit, if its event based it won't.