G-Major LX

[vadalaz]

Yes, I had pretty clear memories of a previous Arborea non-islands game, and I figured the Huns' horse archer might be the only early effective unit that can move fast enough to possibly compete on a Pangaea. Problem is that you still need to move slow melee units or to get to horsemen to capture cities and even horse archers can get slowed a lot by bad terrain to fire on caps from.

I'm thinking it might be better to research BW first and start getting rams all over the map, as horse archers will catch up to them pretty easily, and rams are excellent for tributes. That's what I did in my Lakes game, though obviously Lakes is a much easier map. And OCC is probably the way to go here for the insta-raze, less hassle that way.

Could be a good idea to steal a ton of workers as well and prebuild roads from one AI to another. The problem is the stupid unit supply limit though.

 

[zenmaster]

I'm thinking it might be better to research BW first and start getting rams all over the map, as horse archers will catch up to them pretty easily, and rams are excellent for tributes. That's what I did in my Lakes game, though obviously Lakes is a much easier map. And OCC is probably the way to go here for the insta-raze, less hassle that way.

Could be a good idea to steal a ton of workers as well and prebuild roads from one AI to another. The problem is the stupid unit supply limit though.

Yes, I think your Bronze Working first plan is probably the best. The thought of those rams plodding blindly through the forest does not instill me with confidence though. Polynesian soldiers will be mocking us Huns from their fast boats I think [emoji6]

Edit: I've rolled up a few Huns starts. What a load of bad city spots! This map is bad news for trying to get nice starts. I had "Disable Start Bias" on the first couple tries, then figured I should turn it off because you would think the Huns would be biased to start near pastures so at least I could get production juiced... Did not see a single place to build a pasture in or near any of the 5-6 starts I rolled with start bias activated! Have not seen salt nearby... or wheat or cows or horses for that matter a dozen rolls in. Bleah. Maybe all the bad luck is working itself out and my next one will be great...

 

[RaidandTrade]

@zenmaster - Take heart, I've seen salt and horses on this map! Good luck!


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[zenmaster]

Haha - thanks for giving me the will to continue rolling maps. I'm not greedy: all I'm hoping for is a couple of pasture tiles. One even. Is that asking the map gods for too much?

 

[RaidandTrade]

Attila declared war on me early but I managed to take him out with Galleases but where Manpanzee took 32 turns to clear the map, that's what it took me to take one **** city.

I'm at turn 200+ down to -19 happy and only have 3 caps in hand.

Had to settle a two tile rock in the end of nowhere just to get 6 iron. I think there's only 16 iron in my world so I'm limited to 6 frigates.

It's gonna be a grind out for me...


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[zenmaster]

Attila declared war on me early but I managed to take him out with Galleases but where Manpanzee took 32 turns to clear the map, that's what it took me to take one **** city.

I'm at turn 200+ down to -19 happy and only have 3 caps in hand.

Had to settle a two tile rock in the end of nowhere just to get 6 iron. I think there's only 16 iron in my world so I'm limited to 6 frigates.

It's gonna be a grind out for me...


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Keep the faith. You will get it done. Polynesia has huge advantages in plundering trade routes to get cash to buy instant fleets and they can position ships wherever they need. Give them a try if Elizabeth lets you down too much.

 

[zenmaster]

A roundish pangaea helps immensely if you are going that route. Got a reasonable capital finally with wheatand hills and 2 iron tiles. Bad news is the long thin pangaea that will see my first 2 battering rams getting to the farthest civ Ethiopia at around T 80! And that is planned to be my first conquest... It takes too long to detour to optics early to speed travel at times - then your good units take forever to tech.

The very first map I rolled had a crap capital but a sweet map for conquest. I conquered 1 cap kind of early (went OCC) and was on my way to #2 with another army starting to get built. Alas, I included Spain for some reason and their cities and units multiplied like jackrabbits nearby. An unstoppable carpet of doom swept over me despite trade routes and a freebie. They wouldn't war with anyone else at my asking.

Looking for a nice round map and a decent cap. If I can't get it soon, it's time to break out the tiki masks.

 

[vadalaz]

Played a bit without much success, and now I think BW first is a mistake. Rushing Horse Archers to get Logistics asap is probably the way to go, and maybe capture cities with scouts? A city can't one-shot two scouts at once. I think warrior upgrade ruin is also a must if you want a chance to compete with T106...

I did snipe 2 capitals by ~t45 with rams, but the conquest stalled after that. Took too long to move units around, and then I didn't have enough HAs to keep rolling anyway.

 

[zenmaster]

Played a bit without much success, and now I think BW first is a mistake. Rushing Horse Archers to get Logistics asap is probably the way to go, and maybe capture cities with scouts? A city can't one-shot two scouts at once. I think warrior upgrade ruin is also a must if you want a chance to compete with T106...

I did snipe 2 capitals by ~t45 with rams, but the conquest stalled after that. Took too long to move units around, and then I didn't have enough HAs to keep rolling anyway.

Yes, I tried HArchers first last attempt but the city approaches are still problematic. Even nonexpanders like India and Morocco have expansion cities at chokepoints you need to wade through and the sea, mountains, and forests make it hard to concentrate firepower. I have been using high sea level but am tempted to go medium or even low to try to get more maneuvering room.

If you are lucky enough to get horses and an AI sending you a trade route, horseman are a reasonably early option actually but a never ending supply of scouts might be the more reliable melee unit option early.

 

[RaidandTrade]

Turn 278 and two to go then Monty, despite being at war with three Civs turns up at his (captured) Capital with a monster fleet while mine is headed for Germany.

I'd only just retaken Babylon, held off Atilla and killed off the latest batch of rebel Great War infantry that was trying to tear apart Honolulu! I was hoping to use my peace treaty with Germany to get into position before they ran away with it...

Rage. Quit.

Questions:
1. If taking on a Civ, do you just cap them or burn them to the ground?

I used to think capping should suffice as Dom takes too long if you burn them down. But leaving a foe at your back seems not such a good idea...

2. If you do just cap them, what sort of deterring force do you leave behind?

3. How do you stay happy throughout this process?

I only managed to prevent cities flipping by the narrowest of margins!

Welcome to Deity I guess...



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[zenmaster]

Turn 278 and two to go then Monty, despite being at war with three Civs turns up at his (captured) Capital with a monster fleet while mine is headed for Germany.

I'd only just retaken Babylon, held off Atilla and killed off the latest batch of rebel Great War infantry that was trying to tear apart Honolulu! I was hoping to use my peace treaty with Germany to get into position before they ran away with it...

Rage. Quit.

Questions:
1. If taking on a Civ, do you just cap them or burn them to the ground?

I used to think capping should suffice as Dom takes too long if you burn them down. But leaving a foe at your back seems not such a good idea...

2. If you do just cap them, what sort of deterring force do you leave behind?

3. How do you stay happy throughout this process?

I only managed to prevent cities flipping by the narrowest of margins!

Welcome to Deity I guess...



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1) if playing a naval deity dom game, I often feel it is good (sometimes it is required by geography) to take out an expansion city on the way to a cap, at least until you have gotten your ships to the range promotion. This lets you xp up to range on lesser cities while defanging the first 2-3 civs you take the cap of, the ones most likely to rebound back at you later in the game. Toward the end it is caps only as you trust yourself to win quickly and your fleets usually aren't too far away from the most recent caps.

2) Usually I leave nothing behind, but that means I need to have defanged the civ before or after taking its cap. If you take out 1 or 2 expansion cities prior, it usually has not much left in the way of units. If you sneak in for a quick capital snatch, you really need to hold that cap and whittle down its nearby forces before trying for peace and leaving, unless you are close enough to win the game really soon, although sometimes the peacenik civs aren't too unit heavy relatively so you can leave sooner more safely.

3) On a lot of maps, AI captured caps have 1-3 unique luxes worked, and sometimes happiness wonders, so it is not always a problem. Developing all the luxes in your caps radius and finagling a CS ally or two somehow go a long way toward keeping happiness in check. Being only slightly unhappy is not that bad; just a small combat modifier. On maps where unique luxes seem scarce, OCC can be considered.

Just a few observations from my past games.

 

[zenmaster]

OK,

gave up on the Huns for now. When expanding the land area of hindering-terrain landmasses seems your best option (to avoid so many chokepoints) it may be time to pack it in. I have a bunch of Huns games submitted anyway. It's a lot faster rerolling looking for a good conquest map on lower level nice terrain than it is on Deity Arborea. Your will gets sapped after playing 30-50 turns each of ok starts on arborea just to see if your map will allow a non-slog affair. Deity Standard Pangaea Domination games are not very appealing unless you have some kind of edge to make them quicker.

Have been just as frustrated rolling up Arborea islands . Disable Start Bias or no, I keep getting isolated starts and/or garbage capitals. I think Arborea is heavily skewed toward luxuries like spices, wines, incense, dyes, cotton -- things that don't help your food or production! If I get a gem, it's always alone and in jungle, and precious metals are sparse, even on 4 million years old Earth setting. 1 or 2 sea resources always, Couple decent starts have seen me isolated to the point where nearest neighbor is 15+ Galleass moves away.

Have not gone Polynesia. I know it would be immensely less frustrating, but I've got some good Polynesia games in already (not going to better Manpanzee's map either )-- so I've been rolling maps for Ottomans and Venice. Have a lot of items on my plate the next week, so my vow to get a submission or 2 in becomes perilous as the deadline approaches if a decent map can't be found! Don't feel like playing a giant slog on this one. May break down and play a run of the mill Polynesia game if all else fails.

 

[zenmaster]

@RaidandTrade - after rereading an earlier post, I'm not sure if your previous game was a Polynesia try or not.

If it was Polynesia, make sure you are exploring the heck out of the early map; getting all the ruins you can and finding everyone (CS and AI). That's good cash right there. You will see trade routes that are great for the plundering at 200 gold each so get your triremes on that ASAP, and Manpanzee mentioned a big help: Making your free Liberty settler settle where it can get trade routes with a civ or civs you haven't cheesed off yet. As a veteran of trying some of NiceOneEmlyn's table entries, I think having an AI for trade routes from game start or very early at least helps immensely to get to Compass and beyond ASAP. I think Manpanzee's getting 3 trade routes from Venice in the expansion city he wisely placed in range was really helpful in hitting Compass so early for him, not to mention the extra cash. Ideally, as Polynesia you are swimming in cash from ruins, discoveries, and plundering (and later tributes with your massive fleet) and can buy large Galleass fleets very soon after teching compass.

 

[RaidandTrade]

@zenmaster - Thanks for answering my questions. I've had a couple more goes since my rage quit just to test out a couple of things. Had Morocco right next door which was good for early trade but then had them and the Celts descend with a carpet of doom fleets.

Latest try I am hitting Venice first (which has 5 (yes - five) salts). Think I've botched it so will start over.

Have been going Honour the last couple of tries and it certainly helps getting the promotions rolling.

Looks like I need to go annihilation on some of the earlier conquests next time.

Would like to get one submission in!


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[zenmaster]

@zenmaster - Thanks for answering my questions. I've had a couple more goes since my rage quit just to test out a couple of things. Had Morocco right next door which was good for early trade but then had them and the Celts descend with a carpet of doom fleets.

Latest try I am hitting Venice first (which has 5 (yes - five) salts). Think I've botched it so will start over.

Have been going Honour the last couple of tries and it certainly helps getting the promotions rolling.

Looks like I need to go annihilation on some of the earlier conquests next time.

Would like to get one submission in!


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Good luck! Hope you find some good strategies for this one. I gave in and have a Polynesia game going just to make sure I get a submission in. The start was nothing to write home about but better than most of the pathetic ones I rolled previously. Moved twice to get to a coastal spot adjacent to two deer and a gem in a forest. Couple of dyes in he radius. 2 fish in the radius. That's pretty much the best thing I managed to roll in double digit map rolls. Nothing world beating but I'll probably hit Compass in the 80's and will be able to rush buy at least 3 Galleasses. Not sure what I am doing with them yet... I have lots of "friends" but friendship never lasts long when world domination is the goal!

Honor is good and bad for these galleass rushes - It speeds early trireme building and those faster promotions surely are nice. Help against Deity barbarians and a little culture from them doesn't hurt.

Problem is that without that free Great Scientist from completing Liberty, Compass, Astronomy, and Navigation are all slowed and that gives the AI civs more time to build units and found cities.. Also, the free worker, free settler, and extra hammer help infrastructure. Let me know how Honor does lategame. I was rocking Honor as the Huns but my Polynesians are more into being free.

 

[RaidandTrade]

I did it! It wasn't pretty and it won't win a medal at turn 300 but it was glorious nevertheless.

Turtled a little longer than I thought I would so was still levelling my Galleas fleet when I realised I wasn't far from Navigation and had settled my expo near 6 iron. Decision made to wait and upgrade as I was sitting on some decent cash.

Boudicca went first - Dublin and Edinburgh.
Babylon followed - just Babylon but that had 8 oil which came in handy later.
Across the bay to Basra and Mecca. Arabia was number 2 at that point.

Gang DOWed then. Seems like there's a point in every game when the world turns on you so I slugged it out with Boudicca, Pacal and Babylon all over the map for about 30 turns. It was ugly but it meant I didn't have to DOW Pacal and took two of his cities and reduced Boudicca to an ice-bound rock city.

India went from besties to hostile so he was next - just Delhi but that was enough.

Alexander was at war with Arabia for the princely sum of 1 lux. Arabia had already taken over Venice a little while earlier but my first fleet was in position and waiting. Most of the Arabian fleet was sinking off the coast of Athens by the time my second fleet got into position.

Turn 291 and I'm over the border. Turn 297 and Athens is mine and white peace declared. Turn 297.5 and Venice starts getting shelled from the sea. Turn 299 and it's done.

 

[RaidandTrade]

Meant to add - ended up going full Honour with a splash of Exploration for extra movement. Boudicca built the Great Lighthouse for me so the fleet was pretty speedy. I probably lost about six units the whole game. Nearly wept for one battleship that had nearly all the promotions sailing around a city state that flipped alliance and sunk it with five privateers.

Levelling up to range on a city state before starting conquest certainly came in handy but I really had to watch my happy throughout the game.

I still haven't got to the point of running multiple wars at the same time - possibly constrained a little by resource requirements for naval ranged units (iron and oil). Was nice to have my own iron at the beginning but it still wasn't enough for a second fleet. Oil was a little better thanks to having Arabia in the game - I initially put them in for the extra luxes. Might be good to put Russia on the map for extra resources next time?

Oh, and I played Polynesia for this one. Scouting helped for the goody huts early on and the ability to scout the map before conquest was also very handy. As my war really started at Navigation, I didn't play it optimally.

 

[Bleidraner]

Meant to add - ended up going full Honour with a splash of Exploration for extra movement. Boudicca built the Great Lighthouse for me so the fleet was pretty speedy. I probably lost about six units the whole game. Nearly wept for one battleship that had nearly all the promotions sailing around a city state that flipped alliance and sunk it with five privateers.

Levelling up to range on a city state before starting conquest certainly came in handy but I really had to watch my happy throughout the game.

I still haven't got to the point of running multiple wars at the same time - possibly constrained a little by resource requirements for naval ranged units (iron and oil). Was nice to have my own iron at the beginning but it still wasn't enough for a second fleet. Oil was a little better thanks to having Arabia in the game - I initially put them in for the extra luxes. Might be good to put Russia on the map for extra resources next time?

Oh, and I played Polynesia for this one. Scouting helped for the goody huts early on and the ability to scout the map before conquest was also very handy. As my war really started at Navigation, I didn't play it optimally.

Well done R&T!!! Deity Domination! Way to go! And t299 is a good result.

 

[zenmaster]

Well done R&T!!! Deity Domination! Way to go! And t299 is a good result.

I will second that. Congratulations on finishing an epic Deity domination game. Awesome storyline. Standard Deity domination always takes serious effort!

I too learned the hard way to take a wide berth around supposedly "neutral" or "friend" city states. The AIs seem to like to bribe ones that have your unsuspecting ships in their vicinity!

Did the late Honor policies and finishers help in the late game? I would like Honor a lot better in these naval domination games if there was a little more love for ranged units in there. Liberty has always worked much better for me in these.

Great game, and thanks for the story. I could smell the burning powder in the air and hear the echoes of cannon shot as I read through your post.

 

[RaidandTrade]

@bleidraner, @zenmaster - Have learned a lot from you guys and appreciate your advice. Thanks!


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