Game Programmers and Mod Creaters

[mdwh]

(The express versions of Visual Studio are trial versions, I think).

They're not trial versions - they never expire. They just lack some features - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_Studio_Express .

(Though personally I'm still using Borland C++ Builder Pro 4 that I got off a CoverCD years ago ... mainly out of habit, I haven't bothered to move my projects over to Visual Studio!)

 

[kcwong]

What sort of things are missing? Presumably Dev-C++ wouldn't have those either?

Edit: According to Wikipedia, it lacks "MFC, ATL, OpenMP support and 64-bit compilers, nor does it include a resource editor". Well, MFC is no great loss (and isn't available under other compilers AFAIK), as you say there are (far) better alternatives available, and I believe it's now replaced by .NET, which does work under the Express compilers. I wouldn't want a beginner to go anywhere near MFC, and on the contrary, I'd say it's a pain in their hindquarters to try using it

Agreed about MFC.

But ATL is needed (maybe not for coding games), and in Express you do not have remote debug. I think attach to process is not available as well.

 

[The Conquerer22]

so anybody willing to help me?

 

[The Conquerer22]

or just can you give me advice in what would be best for me specifically and others who have no knowledge of the stuff

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I recommend gamedev.net too, I'm a member there.

I work full time writing games so I'm too busy to help other people except answering questions etc. for fun.

If you want to learn programming I recommend Python (www.python.org I think).

EDIT: Yikes, avoid C++ if you are learning (and MFC, which is C++ also, and ancient and rubbish and stupid and replaced by .NET forms). C# or Python.

 

[Chieftess]

EDIT: Yikes, avoid C++ if you are learning (and MFC, which is C++ also, and ancient and rubbish and stupid and replaced by .NET forms). C# or Python.

I know many people who would say just the opposite (learn C++ first, not Basic). Now, C++ API with DirectX... I *would* avoid with a 9 1/2 foot pole!

 

[MarkC1]

I know many people who would say just the opposite (learn C++ first, not Basic). Now, C++ API with DirectX... I *would* avoid with a 9 1/2 foot pole!

and those people are morons

how can you even think of giving an amateur not only the problem of discovering abstract programming concepts but also the problem of learning tedious C++ syntax as well as complete lack of automatic garbage collectors and so on.....

 

[Chieftess]

and those people are morons

how can you even think of giving an amateur not only the problem of discovering abstract programming concepts but also the problem of learning tedious C++ syntax as well as complete lack of automatic garbage collectors and so on.....

I guess colleges do. The first programming course (at least 10 years ago) was C/C++, and using DOS, or at least a Borland C++ 4.52 console window. We didn't have javascript or java classes, either - web programming was still in its' infancy.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Well don't learn basic unless you want to program databases.

I learnt Pascal at school and then C on a training course. C isn't too bad (I wouldn't recommend it for beginners either however, my knowledge of Pascal made C alot easier).

It took me about 6 months to learn C++ to a decent level of competence, after programming in C professionally for 6 years. C++ is hard (powerful, but difficult).

EDIT: There is a saying "In C it is easy to shoot yourslef in the foot. With C++, you can blow your whole leg off and reuse the bullet".

 

[Chieftess]

Personally, I don't like Basic for databases. Sure, it's easier, but Basic (especially VBA in MS Access) has this tendency to want you to bind controls right to the database. One of your customers made a mistake and wants to cancel? Oh well! They can't, since when you bind a control, you effectively write to the database immediately. Of course, you can use code, but then you can't use subforms since it wants a bound form in the first place... Those are just some of the annoyences I have with VBA.

 

[Shadylookin]

and those people are morons

how can you even think of giving an amateur not only the problem of discovering abstract programming concepts but also the problem of learning tedious C++ syntax as well as complete lack of automatic garbage collectors and so on.....

I know many people who would say just the opposite (learn C++ first, not Basic). Now, C++ API with DirectX... I *would* avoid with a 9 1/2 foot pole!

Most of the programmers I know say to avoid visual basic. As far as I know there's no way to compile it in any other operating system than microsofts. which alienates mac and unix/linux users. Though i've never personally programmed in it.

The majority of recommendations are to start with python or java. At my college we started with java. Python is very popular in the open source world, plus you can customize civ4 with it.

 

[mdwh]

There are some BASICs out there with games programming in mind - e.g., Blitz Basic. Although traditionally BASIC has a bad reputation for a beginner's language (whilst it's easy to learn, it doesn't teach too many skills useful for learning more advanced languages), something like Blitz Basic does have the advantage of being much easier to get into games programming, where as with things like C, you'll be stuck with command line stuff for ages.

For a beginner's language more generally, I've thought Java was a good language at teaching object oriented programming (certainly much easier than C++). It also comes with 2D graphics libraries as standard, so it's easier to get started writing simple 2D games. But it won't be a great language for writing more advanced games.

If you were up for learning the likes of C/C++, I would strongly recommend using one of the various graphics or game engines out there, rather than writing it all yourself in DirectX / OpenGL (unless you have a particular interest in writing engines). There are plenty of free ones, e.g., SDL, OGRE, Irrlicht. But even then, you really want to learn general programming before you start messing around with that.

 

[MarkC1]

you're showing your age Chieftess
I didn't mean to advocate Visual Basic , just wanted to comment on recommending C++ to people coming from no programming background.

The world has moved on to .NET and Java

 

[Chieftess]

you're showing your age Chieftess
I didn't mean to advocate Visual Basic , just wanted to comment on recommending C++ to people coming from no programming background.

The world has moved on to .NET and Java

You young whipper snappers!

(Yes, I know the world's moved on to .NET, I program using it.)