Game Scoring Proposal

[Cartouche Bee]

Initial proposal for game scoring change:

Edited to:
((current score*(turns played/540))+(internal score*(turns remaining/540)))+(difficulty*turns remaining)

current score = game score before any bonus points are awarded at games end
internal score = ((Happy citizens*2) + content citizens + specialists + land + (future tech * 5) * difficulty

I think future tech should probably be rewarded more but I believe this is the currently awarded value.

The idea is to award the player for the position at the end of the game and a bonus for early finish.

I did this fast so I expect changes.

Comments or input?



Monarch example of a win at 1400 AD.

current score = 5000
internal score = 20000

(5000*.5)+ (20000*.5)+ (4*270) = 13580

 

[God]

I think we should just leave the scoring system as it is. Just discourage/disallow milking.

Otherwise one may as well play the tournament games because they use a different scoring system.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Originally posted by God
I think we should just leave the scoring system as it is. Just discourage/disallow milking.

Otherwise one may as well play the tournament games because they use a different scoring system.

Well if you can suggest how to discourage/disallow milking then I'm all ears. That is what I am trying to accomplish.

As for the tournament, they still do not have a scoring system in place.

CB

 

[Lucky]

But how do you define milking??

Someone who has conquered and settled the max he can get without domination and then waiting for 2050 is the general belief of milking.
But what if someone only slowly approaches the territory limit? They just wage war every 200 years and only conquer 1 or 2 cities. And the last war is already in 2000. But he could have conquered much earlier. Would that be milking too??

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Originally posted by Lucky
But how do you define milking??

Milking - dragging the game out with the objective to achieve more points that one receives from the current games bonus system.

Almost any game past the year 1250 AD, starts to take advantage of the current poor bonus system. Once a player starts to earn more points continuing the game, milking has begun. Yes, there are times that milking is unintentional but having a system of scoring that promotes the milkimg process seems to create two factions of game play.

I am not merely suggesting that we change the scoring system for our own use, I think that Firaxis should aid in solving the problem. Plugging the holes that are being reported and rewarding play that achieves early theoretical maximums on a map should be rewarded.

CB

 

[Fossil]

Ah, a thread on this (sorry for polluting Sulla's site thread)

(Fossil dusts off his soapbox....)

Sort of a blanket statement (feel free to disagree): any "hard coded" scoring solution will tend to encourage a particular style of play - after awhile, everyone catches on and uses the same approach (unless it bores them to tears). Exhibit "A" is milking under the present scoring system.

High on my wishlist for Civ is a configurable scoring algorithm. Job one in starting to play would be to understand how to approach the game, given particular scoring parameters. We all do this now, but since it never changes, it's "by rote."

Cautionary note: I have no expectation that it would be implemented, so it's probably not worth getting too excited by the following discussion.

Some specifics

Configurable bonuses, possibly different points for different victory types, possibly changing future tech bonus by a factor for each future tech researched.

Configurable points for happy, content, specialist, and multiplied by a configurable turn-number factor (or even a different factor for each citizen type).

Configurable points for number of cities (it could be a negative number!)

Configurable per-turn bonuses for controlling resources/luxuries; configurable bonuses for trading luxuries/resources - possibly different for each luxury/resource; possibly different for import than export.

Configurable bonuses for peace (per turn, possibly bonus kicks in after some number of turns, possibly bonus increases by some factor each turn; also a factor for the number of civs remaining in the game).

Configurable bonus for number of civs remaining in the game (per turn, multiplied by a configurable factor).

Configurable bonuses (per turn) for control of a wonder, or for each building of a certain type.

I'd put this stuff right in "new game" as an option when generating the game.

Twist these dials, and you'd get some weird stuff - and without changing the game engine.

Example 1

Massive future tech bonus for the first few future techs, rapidly decreasing with additional future techs; penalty to score if game reaches a target year, penalty rapidly increases if the game continues; big bonus for spaceship victory. Play style: science rush

Example 2

Big bonuses for controlling strategic resources; big scoring penalties for war. Play style: Resource grab, culture flips.

Example 3

Big bonus for trading; big bonus for keeping civs in the game; big penalty for war. big bonus for diplomatic victory, bonus for each bank. Play style: Peaceful expansion, alliances and negotiation.

(Fossil puts the soapbox away)

 

[Lawrence]

OK. Here comes my proposal for score system.

It is simple, just multiply the early win bonus by 3.

Almost any game past the year 1250 AD, starts to take advantage of the current poor bonus system.

So why don't we move this date more to the end of the game. By multipling the early win bonus, a Monarch win in 1750 will get 400 * 3 * 4 = 4800 points. A milker will have to increase his score by 24 every turn to leverage this bonus. That is not too easy.

 

[Matrix]

Guys, let me first asure you with the fact that there is not such thing as a perfect scoring system. It's either milking, or trying to end the game as fast as possible.

With the GOTM for Civ2 we use the trick of square-rooting the score before giving the bonus for early finishing. That way if you have a lot of points it's less profitable to get even more points.

But that scoring system is made for Civ2 and won't work for Civ3. Also, the scoring system for Civ3 is much more complex and works better on itself. The scoring system of Civ2 is just too simple; the one of Civ3 isn't.

It will take months to develop a scoring system that is better than the current one. And it will always be controversial. For Civ2 it was nescessary. For Civ3 it isn't. So I'm pretty steadfastly on this matter.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Glad there are things less than perfect in this world.

CB

 

[Gregski]

Fossil,

Intresting suggestion. The thing about this is that each GOTM would have a 'recommended' line, e.g. be scientific, cultural, militaristic, etc. It would force people to abandon their trusted methods and try something different. Not certain that this is the best thing to do though...

 

[Matrix]

Secondly: is it possible?

The only thing I can might do is disabling all victory type except one. But the people that milk can end the game any way they like, so that doesn't help as well.

 

[JFL_Dragon]

To Cartouche Bee

I can understand why you want to change the system, but I
agree with Matrix. I know it frustrating when you get a 9th
ranking after playing a game which should be in the top 3 if you had decided to milk it GOTM 5 I think.

But I would not even be concerned with the final scores or rankings, for the many reasons you,me,Sulla and many others have pointed out in our various postings. Just play to win the game, but have as much fun as you can. Its a casual contest.

Your GOTM 5 was an excellent domination game and anybody who knows the scoring system already knows this

For me, when I try to get the highest score or win as fast as I can, the game becomes less enjoyable. But I sometimes do both of these just for something different.



Cheers

JFL_Dragon

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Hi JFL_Dragon,

I hear you!

My underlying point is that alot of people whine about things but when push comes to shove not many will step up to the plate and take a swing at the ball. Anyway, I can do a full court press on most maps.

CB

 

[Fossil]

Not only that, it's tough to put it in the end zone when you're down forty-love... you'd have to hit it out of the park.