Getting the same tech two times

[Chofritz]

I was playing a game (normal map, ragin hordes, emperor) as the celts. In 800bc I met the mongols, I asked them to exchange knowledge and traded one of my techs for pottery. Before ending the discussion I demanded tribute, and wo-ha they would share me the secret of pottery,

Has anyone noticed this before?

Sorry if this has been posted before, for some reason the serach page wouldn't load for me,

 

[duke o' york]

No, but once when I had all the techs and was researching FTs, the Romans offered to trade me the knowledge of Representative Government for Advanced Flight or something. I was intrigued by this previously unheard-of tech and of course swapped but it never appeared on my list of known techs and seemed to be a pretty good ruse on the part of the AI. So I just crushed their petty civ.

 

[Nick]

Plumbing is occasionally shown as having been discovered by rival civs; I think someone posted instructions as to how to amend your files so that you too can enjoy the benefits of this advance.

 

[starlifter]

I was playing a game (normal map, ragin hordes, emperor) as the celts. In 800bc I met the mongols, I asked them to exchange knowledge and traded one of my techs for pottery. Before ending the discussion I demanded tribute, and wo-ha they would share me the secret of pottery,

Has anyone noticed this before?

This is because of a flaw in the programmer's diplomatic module. It takes the state of techs when you initiate the diplomatic session, and does not account for different logic branches, eg tech trading hands, before exiting.

If you exit the Diplomatic module (Dip Screen) after techs trade hands, then reenter to do the above as you describe, then that "bug" will not occur. The programmer's mind did not behave like the proverbial "steel trap", and I'd love to see the source code, LOL....

 

[starlifter]

Plumbing is occasionally shown as having been discovered by rival civs; I think someone posted instructions as to how to amend your files so that you too can enjoy the benefits of this advance.

This should not be possible in the PC version if your rules.txt is the original. If it has been modified by patches or scenarios, then use notepad to open it up and take a look at this line:

Plumbing,           4, 0,  no,  no,  1, 4    ; Plu  (Cst & Pot)

Use the search function for "plumbing", and then compare your line with the one above. The key is the "no, no "part. If either or both read anything else, change them to "no". Or just cut and paste my line above on top of (replacing) your own plumbing line.

Or just pull out your backup copy or rules.txt and copy it over the current one.

 

[Nick]

I think one of the moderators on this forum, from memory either Smash or Thunderfall, posted a picture of a caption displaying "The French have discovered Plumbing" - apparently on an unmodded game.

I seem to recall seeing it myself on my PS version, but it was when I was first learning the game and I didn't appreciate the significance at the time.

 

[starlifter]

I think one of the moderators on this forum, from memory either Smash or Thunderfall, posted a picture of a caption displaying "The French have discovered Plumbing" - apparently on an unmodded game.

Well then, that is surely odd. I'd like to see all the .txt files in the Civ 2 root directory, and any .txt files in the directory where the file was loaded from (unless it had not been saved & loaded). That's really bizarre, unless there is a back door in the algorithm. Hmmmm.

 

[Marlos]

Originally posted by duke o' york
No, but once when I had all the techs and was researching FTs, the Romans offered to trade me the knowledge of Representative Government for Advanced Flight or something. I was intrigued by this previously unheard-of tech and of course swapped but it never appeared on my list of known techs and seemed to be a pretty good ruse on the part of the AI. So I just crushed their petty civ.

I admire your diplomatic prowess, duke!

 

[Nick]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6734&highlight=Plumbing is the link to the discussion about plumbing. Thunderfall it was.

 

[starlifter]

is the link to the discussion about plumbing. Thunderfall it was.

I think something must have changed his rules.txt. Otherwise, to the best of my knowlege, there is no other way, except for a "backdoor" put in the algorithm by the programmers. Every game you play , the game "knows" about plumbing, but simple never activated it because of the "no" "no" read into the tech tree matrix at game start or load.

 

[duke o' york]

I am this close to positive that plumbing is a spare tech that was included in the code so that scenario makers were able to have more than the original number of techs in the tech tree when creating new scenarios. For example when different civs have differnet, unique, tech trees in a scenario.

 

[ferenginar]

It was my understanding that you could add in extra techs anyway. You can make them pre-requisites for new kick arse units and mark as low on the AI research list. That way you can dominate the world and they won't even realise how you did it.

Forgive me if this only applies to TOT.

ferenginar

 

[starlifter]

It was my understanding that you could add in extra techs anyway. You can make them pre-requisites for new kick arse units and mark as low on the AI research list. That way you can dominate the world and they won't even realise how you did it.

yes, you can in fact create totally new techs. You just need to "plug" them into the existing structure. You can totally change the existing structure, too... like making Stealth a prerequisite for Polythiesm. It is possible to make a tech that even blocks the tech tree advancement if you're not careful.

If you add new unit in new Techs, the AI will understand the new units.... as long as you correctly and fairly describe them in the proper locations. You have to make the balance of cost and power work out, or else the AI will tend to way over/under build units that are not appropriate for the period .

 

[Becka]

This really doesn't have to do with what's being discussed, but I used to (that is, I haven't in a while) occasionally get messages that such-and-so civilization has attained such-and-such technology from the Mongle when there isn't even a Mongle civ in the game.

 

[starlifter]

by Becka:

occasionally get messages that such-and-so civilization has attained such-and-such technology from the Mongle when there isn't even a Mongle civ in the game.

Wow, if the save prior to that message could be zipped and posted, it would be very interesting to look at.

There are basically two ways that could happen. First, it could be a logic error in the civ2.exe file. This would be hard to detect without access to the game's source code.

Second, if could be due to certain overflow/data "corruption" in the matricies that contain the definition of the game. If a flag or marker, for instance, became set to a value that allowed the messsage to be displayed, you could get it.

So it is possible.... there are definitely some real "programming" bugs in the game (I've seen the GL give an advance to a civ when I conquer a totally different civ's city, do not even take an advance from the plunder).

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by starlifter
by Becka:

Wow, if the save prior to that message could be zipped and posted, it would be very interesting to look at.

There are basically two ways that could happen. First, it could be a logic error in the civ2.exe file. This would be hard to detect without access to the game's source code.

Second, if could be due to certain overflow/data "corruption" in the matricies that contain the definition of the game. If a flag or marker, for instance, became set to a value that allowed the messsage to be displayed, you could get it.

So it is possible.... there are definitely some real "programming" bugs in the game (I've seen the GL give an advance to a civ when I conquer a totally different civ's city, do not even take an advance from the plunder).

I'll see what I can do, but it hasn't happened on the computer yet. But I've been playing CivII more now so I might see it sometime.