GOTM 117 Spoiler

[Ali Ardavan]

I started to and played till -500s last night. I kept the None settler, employed size 1 tactic, founded 3 cities in home island, and made 2 settlers per city. I over prepared for irrigation and got done too early in -975. While a trireme was ready the same turn, I would have been better off finishing a little later and instead having 2-3 triremes ready to leave. Marco got done in -900 and again I wish I had finished that prior to leaving the home island.

I exchanged maps with all, managed only one alliance and no gifts. I spent the rest of the time expanding to nearby islands. The rivals are remarkably slow in both research and wonder building.

I have not decided whether to go for conquest or space ship yet.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Date Notes

-4000 None Archer from hut.
-3950 Babylon founded with access to Peat and dark fish.
-3900 -> Bronze Working. Revolution started.
-3850 Monarchy established. T3L0S7
-3500 Size 1 settler produced.
-3400 Bronze -> Currency. Ur founded.
-3000 Nineveh founded.
-2900 Currency -> Mapmaking.
-2450 Mapmaking -> Trade

Status at -2000
Population: 0.03M; Cities: 3; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 33; Cost per turn: 0; Total advances: 7; Production: 6; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders:
Units: 6 settlers (1 None), 2 warriors, 1 None Archer
Celt: No contact
German: No contact
Spanish: No contact
Chinese: No contact
Carthaginian: No contact
Sioux: No contact

-1900 Trade -> Writing.
-1250 Writing -> Literacy. T7L0S3

Status at -1000
Population: 0.12M; Cities: 3; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 13; Cost per turn: 0; Total advances: 9; Production: 11MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders:
Units: 7 settlers (1 None), 3 warriors, 1 None Archer
Celt: No contact
German: No contact
Spanish: No contact
Chinese: No contact
Carthaginian: No contact
Sioux: No contact

 

[Peaster]

I've played to approx 1ad, and know where most of the AI are, and have chosen my game plan. The debate in the main thread was about the size-1 trick and whether to build a city with the NON. I did both. I finished irrigating in 1100BC, just slightly ahead of Ali, but had similar problems. I wasn't quite ready with enough triremes, tech and WoWs for the next phase. I had 11 settlers by then, and had to rush boats, pottery, and HG in order to settle them all. I didn't get to Marco until 550BC. But now I have a nice big civ and think my plan has worked pretty well.

I'll admit that having 6 early cities was overrated. Compared to 3 larger cities [eg Ali], mine got a few extra shields per turn and probably could support more settlers more easily. But I'm not quite sure they were worth the settlers [and work] lost in making them. I guess that kind of question is a good reason for comparison games.

-4000: Hut = 50g, which I consider fairly lucky.
-3850: Monarchy
-3650: Settler 3 born (from size-1) and NON finishes 1st irrigation.
-3450(approx): 3 cities, 1 warrior, 2 short -roads
-2850: 5 cities, curr --> mm
-2100: Trade
-2050: 6th city (on converted grass)
-1150: Last conversion
-1100: Last irrigation (but no boats til next turn)
-1050: 2 boats and 4 settlers out; a hut = nomad (lucky, but the timing / location was not).
-1000: 8 cities, 10S, 3boats, 10 adv
-850: pots-->seaf, 8 of my 14 cities are rioting (but still growing!), hut = barb, which kills S. Boat detects Carthage.
-800: HG, and now production almost doubles (Mfg 38, taxes 20g per turn, ....)
-575: Celts = Col, seaf --> phil, hut=50g.
-550: Marco, and Chi build Pyr. Marco is good for almost nothing, since 3 AI immediately declare war, and the other 3 AI have no techs I need. Still, I got 3 maps and could make some plans.
-475: First 2 vans to Carthage, approx 200g each. These left a bit before the Marco vans were built, since gold was a higher priority than the WoW. Now my civ finally seems healthy, but it'll be hard to get more trade going, with 3 wars and no hides-fit.
-200: LH. repu --> cons.
-125: Lost 2 cities to hidden German + Spanish units, but made peace in order to trade for a while and get Sp map. Still missing the Sioux map.

I plan to play for conquest, but am clearly not ready to start. One barracks, but no vets yet, no tribute possible yet, just a few warriors really. Have about 25 cities, but don't have great transportation, production, etc, and no ideal trading partners yet. I think this will be fun.

 

[haleewud]

I have played well into the game.

I also used the size 1 trick as well as keeping the NON settler. I had the NON settler building roads until 3300BC. I only built 3 cities on the island.

4000BC 1 settler moves to 40,36 the other moves to the hut (Archer)
3950BC Babylon founded at 40,36
3900BC Start Mysticism
3850BC Monarchy established
3500BC Babylon produces Settler (size 1). This settler builds roads on the way to 38,40
3400BC Mysticism -> Writing
3300BC Ur founded at 38.40
3050BC Babylon produces Settler
2950BC Nineveh founded at 45,37, IPRB Babylon 3sh
2900BC Writing -> BW, IPRB Ur 3sh
2600BC Babylon Settler
2550BC BW -> Currency, IPRB Nineveh 6sh
2400BC Ur Settler, IPRB Babylon 4sh
2350BC Nineveh Settler
2300BC IPRB Ur 4sh, Nineveh 4sh
2200BC IPRB Ur 4sh
2100BC Babylon Settler (#2)
2000BC Currency -> Trade
1950BC Nineveh Settler (#2)
1850BC Ur Settler (#2)
1600BC Babylon Settler (#3)
1450BC Trade -> Map Making
1250BC 100K
1200BC Nineveh builds Food Van
1100BC All squares on Island (except Peat) are roaded, irrigated grasslands. I had 8 Settlers working at the end. 45 of 72 beakers for Map Making are done. After I completed the irrigation, I turned 4 of the irrigated (non-shielded) grasslands into forests (completed by 650BC)
1050BC 1 Babylon Settler joins Ur (size 4)
1000BC Ur builds Food Van, IPRB Babylon 6sh
975 BC IPRB Nineveh 2sh
950BC Map Making -> Masonry
925BC Babylon produces first Trireme, Hut -> Masonry
900BC Start Literacy, Nineveh builds 2nd Trireme, 200K, Ashur found on small island at 38,32
875BC IPRB Ur 5sh, Nineveh 4sh
850BC IPRB Ur 5sh, Nineveh 4sh
800BC Ellipi founded 34,46. Akkad founded at 29,35
750BC Ur build Food van
725BC Nineveh builds Food van. 4 vans to Nineveh.
700BC Nineveh build MPE. Power is Supreme. Give Techs to Sioux, Carths and Celts, get maps
675BC Literacy -> Construction, Hut Legion, IPRB Babylon 9sh, Ashur 2sh. Contact Chinese, they demand Literacy, I give it. I trade Trade for Construction and Monarchy for Seafaring. Maps are exchanged. Contact Spanish they demand Construction, I give it. Trade CB for IW. Maps are exchanged. Contact Germans, give Literacy and Trade, they don't have Map Making, so maps are not exchanged.
650BC start Republic, IPRB Babylon 7sh
600BC Uruk founded (near Carths) at 39,51
575BC Babylon Dye, 400K, IPRB Ashur 2sh, Akkad 2sh
550BC Nineveh Temple, Ur Beads, Eridu founded at 51,31, IPRB Ellipi 2sh
525BC IPRB Akad 6sh
475BC Hut -> 50g. IPRB Nineveh 6sh, Ashur 2sh, Akkad 4sh
450BC 500K, RB Babylon 12sh
425BC Republic -> Bank, Revolution, Babylon Temple, Democracy founded, 5 of 12 warriors are disbanded, IPRB Akkad 2sh, Babylon 5sh, T/L/S = 0/5/5
400BC Nineveh Dye and WLTCD starts, Ur Temple, IPRB Babylon 5sh, T/L/S = 0/8/2
375BC WLTCD starts in Ur and Babylon. Samarra founded at 58,30, Ellipi disbands warrior
350BC WLTCD ends in Ur. 700K, Ur Beads to Carthage 200g (Tech Cost was 208). IPRB Ur 4sh, Ashur 3sh+10sh, Eridu 8sh, Nineveh 6sh
325BC Banking -> Math, Ashur Spice, 800K. Babylon Dye to Malaca for 207g (Tech Cost was 224). IPRB Nineveh 9sh, Ur 4sh, Uruk 6sh, Babylon 9sh
300BC Akkad Dye, WLTCD ends in Nineveh, Math -> Astro (Tech Cost - 270). 1 Million, IPRB Nineveh 5sh, Ur 4sh, Uruk 8sh. Contact Sioux , give 6 Techs, Tech Cost = 225.

 

[Peaster]

How can we compare games ?? Three players so far finished irrigation at approx the same time. Probably because my NON made a quick city, I had a few extra [small] cities and settlers at 1000BC, but it's not clear they gave me an advantage.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

How can we compare games ?? Three players so far finished irrigation at approx the same time. Probably because my NON made a quick city, I had a few extra [small] cities and settlers at 1000BC, but it's not clear they gave me an advantage.

Well, we all took slightly different approaches. You built 6 cities in home island, haleewud and I built 3. You used the Non settler as soon as your size-1 settler was ready, haleewud and I kept it. You did the job with 11 settlers, haleewud with 8, and I with 7. This latter thing is the only difference between haleewud's approach and mine. It allowed him to finish 3 turns earlier but due to lack of a trireme I actually left the island earlier than him. I had my first wonder 4 turns earlier than you and you had yours 4 turns earlier than haleewud.

Having said all this, the best way I know of for comparison is to post status messages that I do at regular intervals. I have already posted mine for -2000 and -1000. I will post more in a moment.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

My expansion off the island was very slow in retrospect. With so many settlers on hand, I should have been able to build cities more quickly. Looking at the logs haleewud has the same number of cities by -300 that I do though he built most of his earlier than my corresponding one. Peaster of course has a lot more cities, in -850 he has more than I had at +1.

I had to raise the luxury rate exorbitantly high (60%) to control my empire. Missing Hanging Gardens just compounded my problems. Slow expansion meant no black heads and despite my high luxury rate I had to employ some entertainers. Building Michelangelo in +280 was a great help and allowed some limited growth due to celebrations.

I struggled with the decision to stay in Monarchy or switch to Republic. Eventually I chose Republic, because I figured active warfare is sometime away.

I have decided to play a conquest game but given the size of the map and restarts on attacking rivals early on may not be a great idea. My first target may be Carthaginians. If it was not for their war with Chinese I would have had to engage them already. Next targets are Spanish, Chinese, and Germans. Celts and Sioux are going to be last.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

-0975 Irrigation of the island is done. First trireme leaves Ur.
-0925 T6L4S0
-0900 Marco built. 50g from hut. T3L4S3
Ceremonial Burial, Trade, Monarchy -> Celt(2) -> Pottery, peace, maps
Trade, Monarchy, Mapmaking, Code of Laws -> German (1) -> Mysticism, peace, maps
Trade, Mapmaking, Pottery, Mysticism -> Sioux (5) -> Construction, peace, maps
Spanish declare war when I refuse to give them Construction. Dumb of me.
Mapmaking, Mysticism, Monarchy, Alphabet -> Carthaginian (6) -> Polytheism, peace, maps
-0875 Ashur founded.
-0850 Construction, Ceremonial Burial -> Spanish (0) -> peace, maps
Construction, Trade, Polytheism, Mysticism -> Chinese (2) -> maps
Both Sioux and Carthaginians refuse my offer of alliance. Celts (4) offer alliance and I accept but no gifts.
-0775 50g from hut. Ellipi founded in Carthagia.
-0650 Akkad founded. 4 barbarian horsemen from hut in Carthagia.
-0625 Barbarian horsemen kill my caravan. Warrior lost in attack on barabarians.
-0600 Barbarian horsemen die in attack on my settler. Uruk founded.
-0525 2 barbarian horsemen appeared near Ellipi without warning.
-0500 barbarian horseman kills my vet settler.
-0475 Elephant from hut.
-0450 Literacy -> Philosophy. Lost a warrior in attack on barbarian horseman. Second warrior kills it off. Beads to Carthage for 152 establishes the first trade route. This fills up my box which only needed 132. Why was this not capped?
Construction -> Celts -> Seafaring. Literacy, Seafaring, Monarchy -> Sioux -> Engineering, Masonry. T0L4S6
-0400 Eridu founded. 100g from hut.
-0375 Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Republic. Spice to Carthaginians for 207.
-0325 Republic -> Math. Demanded tribute from all rivals except allied Celts. Got nothing. Spanish and Carthaginians declared war. Republic established. T4L5S1
-0300 Legion from hut. Samarra founded. T3L6S1
-0250 None Crusader from Chinese hut. Lagash founded. Republic -> Carthaginian -> cease fire.
-0225 Kish founded.
-0200 Beads to Chinese for 168.
-0175 Advanced tribe founds Nippur in China. Philosophy, Seafaring, Engineering -> Carthaginians -> no peace. They have an elephant next to my two cities in their homeland one of which is unprotected.
-0150 Carthaginian elephant pulls back. Celts beat me to Hanging Gardens.
-0125 Pyramids built.
-0100 Legion from hut. Republic, Alphabet -> Sioux.
-0075 Math -> Astronomy. Beads to Chinese for 204.
-0025 8 barbarian horsemen from hut. My elephant kills 1.
+0001 Crusader from hut. Crusaders kill two barbarian horsemen. Shuruppak founded at the tail end of Germany (continent 4). Swapped maps with Celts, Germans, Chinese, and Sioux.

Status at +0001
Population: 0.9M; Cities: 13; Trade routes: 0D4F; Government: Republic
Gold: 15; Cost per turn: 0; Total advances: 21; Production: 40MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Marco, Pyramids
Units: 3 Settlers ( 1 None), 1 Warrior, 1 None Archers, 2 Legions, 2 Crusaders (1 None), 4 Trireme, 2 Diplomats, 4 Caravans
Celt: 6 cities, 12 techs; Hanging Gardens; Allied with me
German: 3 cities, 16 techs
Spanish: 5 cities, 9 techs; nominal war with me
Chinese: 4 cities, 16 techs; war with Carthaginians
Carthaginian: 3 cities, 18 techs; war with Chinese
Sioux: 6 cities, 18 techs

+0020 Chinese build Colossus. Barbarians kill my legion. Carthaginians offer peace and I accept.
+0040 Another barbarian killed.
+0060 Last barbarian killed. Zariqum founded in Germany. Sippar founded.
+0080 Astronomy -> Banking. Medicine from hut. Gems to Carthage for 346. T4L6S0
+0120 Beads to Chinese for 272. T3L6S1
+0140 Spanish Trireme shows up near Ashur. Banking -> Invention. Izibia,Larsa, and Nimrud founded. Math, Republic, Mysticism -> Spanish (0) -> peace, maps.
+0160 Spanish Trireme does not unload. Beads for 40 establishes the first domestic route. None Legion from hut.
+0200 None legion from hut. Republic -> Celts -> Iron Working.
+0220 Zamua founded.
+0240 Navigation from hut.
+0260 Khorsabad founded. Domestic Hides for 50.
+0280 Michelangelo built.
+0300 Three cities celebrate.
+0320 Domestic Salt for 62.
+0340 All celebrations end.
+0360 Dye to Carthaginians for 84.
+0380 First infrastructure, a harbor, built.
+0420 Hindana founded.
+0440 Spice to Beijing for 102.
+0460 Invention -> Bridge building. Dye to Carthaginians for 160.
+0500 Domestic Coal for 100.

Status at +0500
Population: 3.4M; Cities: 21; Trade routes: 8D9F; Government: Republic
Gold: 46; Cost per turn: 7; Total advances: 27; Production: 93MT; 0 polluted tiles
Wonders: Marco, Pyramids, Michelangelo
Units: 11 Settlers ( 1 None), 1 Warrior, 1 None Archers, 3 Legions (2 None), 3 Crusaders (1 None), 4 Trireme, 1 Caravel, 2 Diplomats, 7 Caravans
Celt: 8 cities, 17 techs; Hanging Gardens; Allied with me
German: 3 cities, 18 techs
Spanish: 5 cities, 14 techs;
Chinese: 4 cities, 20 techs; Colossus; war with Carthaginians
Carthaginian: 3 cities, 21 techs; war with Chinese
Sioux: 7 cities, 22 techs

 

[Peaster]

Happy Holidays All !

Having said all this, the best way I know of for comparison is to post status messages that I do at regular intervals. I have already posted mine for -2000 and -1000. I will post more in a moment.

Yes, that's the way we usually do it, and I'll post more below. I was thinking of our little debate about starting strategy; we all seem to agree on using size 1, but I was alone in using up my NON early. I am happy with my decision, because I like having lots of cities and settlers, but am not sure I "won the debate", since you may value an early Marco more, or other things. So it's ambiguous. No problem though.

I've played from -200 to +240 since my last post. Have switched to republic (similar thinking to Ali on that, but I missed out on AI tribute) and built Mike's, which is helping a lot. More stats:

1ad: Republic, 28 cities, pop 1.9mil, Mfg 85, 22adv, approx 10 routes, with a new chain forming to Germany. 5S, 11tri, 15v, 1cru, etc. At war with 2 AI (nominally). 3WoWs: HG, MP, LH. 4/0/6 with taxes = 80g/t.

I feel I've been a little slow to start thinking conquest, but with large map, Diety, restarts on, you can't really rush that much.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I was thinking of our little debate about starting strategy; we all seem to agree on using size 1, but I was alone in using up my NON early. I am happy with my decision, because I like having lots of cities and settlers, but am not sure I "won the debate", since you may value an early Marco more, or other things. So it's ambiguous. No problem though.

We cannot resolve the debate by comparing results as you built twice as many cities as haleewud and I did.
If you have time, I propose you do this simulation: Start from right before you build a city with your None settler. Keep it but otherwise play your game exactly as before placing your cities exactly as before and producing the same things as before. Aim to have the same number of units on hand at the time of finishing the irrigation job. Then compare results. I bet you will be slightly ahead if you keep the None settler.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I played till +1000 last night. I started trading with Germans and Spanish as well as Chinese and Carthaginians. Built Leo and Magellan in this period. Chinese sneaked attacked and I decided to take advantage of it and start warfare. I took 4 crusaders and 2 knights to Beijing and lost them all to a pikeman and an archer! I could not even kill the pikeman. I am building barracks for a new army.

Gunpowder has been discovered by Sioux and shared with me. So far no one else has it. Most have Feudalism though. I am hoping to take care of a few rivals with crusaders and knights. If they get gunpowder I have to wait for cavalry or even modern units.

 

[grigor]

I have started - I hope I can finish.

I figured that the fastest to island irrigation had to be putting as many cities as possible on swamp - in the initial position it looks like I can do 2, and after a few turns I found the third.

My hut was 50g, which allowed a size 1 trick TWO TIMES! I was in heaven. I put two cities on grass tiles and used the other settlers (including the NONE settler) to irrigate.

I was finished by 1450bc.

I built HG first, and got Marco in 525bc, which is where I have stopped for a while.

11 cities, 4 triremes.

More details later.

 

[Peaster]

We cannot resolve the debate by comparing results as you built twice as many cities as haleewud and I did.

In my opinion, this means I won !

Comparison games are useful if people have common goals for the game, or even for some phase of the game. But most people seem reluctant to state their goals. Do you have any that you value higher than number of cities ?

If you have time, I propose you do this simulation: Start from right before you build a city with your None settler. Keep it but otherwise play your game exactly as before placing your cities exactly as before and producing the same things as before. Aim to have the same number of units on hand at the time of finishing the irrigation job. Then compare results. I bet you will be slightly ahead if you keep the None settler.

Seems like a good idea, and I'll do it if I have time. Right now I am enjoying the actual game quite a bit, aronud 400AD. The special rules worked pretty well, keeping the human busy while the AI got a chance to build some WoWs, etc. I just did a 1-turn revolt, allowing me to raze the Carths without Senate interference. So, now I can think more clearly about anti-respawning and global conquest. Probably in another 500 years or so.

AI Gunpowder is not welcomed in EC games, but it's not much worse than AI Feudalism, since pikers get a D bonus. And it sounds like your piker was on a river, probably fortified. This is another reason to conquer EARLY ! Now you may need better science to get the odds back on your side.


@Grigor: Glad to see you are playing ! I am not sure I understand the rules, or what you did, but I didn't think it was allowed to build on swamps (until changing them to grass). This probably makes little difference, since building on swamp is a sacrifice in itself.

I also got 50g, but chose to do size-one only once. If you are interested, I'll can think about this decision more when I do the Ali-test, and we can discuss it more then. Sounds like you did well though ... 1450bc seems to be the record.

 

[grigor]

As I read the rules it was allowed. If not, I won't submit.

But anyway, I mishandled the next phase so badly that I won't be getting any stars this month.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Chances are I won't finish this GOTM. I was expecting to get most of it done over the holidays, but I was under the weather for a few days, and so lost most of the playing time. Based on experience, I strongly doubt I will finish this GOTM once I'm back at university.

I did play to 900 BC, and was able to get off the island in 1000 BC, which was the most interesting part of this GOTM.

I got 50 gold from the hut, so I decided to to the size 1 trick twice (having made sure to research bronze working for the 20 shield slot first). By 3200 BC I had 4 cities, 3 of which were sharing the Peat.

I raised taxes to 70% and applied judicious rushbuying and city worker management to maximize settler production. My last 2 cities on the island were built on swamps (1 with access to the peat) in 2550 BC and 2500 BC.

My first recorded irrigation occurred in 2000 BC when I drained a swamp one of my cities occupied, and I actually irrigated a square the turn after that.

Having finished the last square of irrigation in 1050 BC, in 1000 BC I had 6 cities, 9 citizens in those cities, 13 settlers and 2 triremes. Based on the happiness troubles I started to experience immediately after building more cities, I should have diverted 5 settlers worth of shields into the Hanging Gardens. I had discovered Bronze Working, Currency, Map Making, Trade and Writing and was about 3/4 the way through Literacy.

 

[Peaster]

I did play to 900 BC, and was able to get off the island in 1000 BC, which was the most interesting part of this GOTM.... I got 50 gold from the hut, so I decided to to the size 1 trick twice (having made sure to research bronze working for the 20 shield slot first).

I've enjoyed the latter part as well, since the human is naturally handicapped a bit. Did you save your NON's, like most players ? Or build cities ASAP, as I did ? I'm guessing you built, and that your plan is best ... I didn't analyze size-one-ing twice, but it seems to have worked well for you and Grigor.

My last 2 cities on the island were built on swamps... My first recorded irrigation occurred in 2000 BC when I drained a swamp one of my cities occupied, and I actually irrigated a square the turn after that.

Ah. Maybe this is what Grigor did. I'd agree it should be OK to irrigate after building.

Having finished the last square of irrigation in 1050 BC, in 1000 BC I had 6 cities, 9 citizens in those cities, 13 settlers and 2 triremes.

Sounds like you [or Grigor] won the irrigation race. Your results to 1000BC sound very similar to mine, with 1 extra settler [but one of mine was a new nomad], 1 less boat.

Based on the happiness troubles I started to experience immediately after building more cities, I should have diverted 5 settlers worth of shields into the Hanging Gardens.

Also familiar. Did you already have pottery ? I got pots in 850BC + HG in approx 800BC, an annoying glitch, but not too serious. I'm guessing you could do approx the same.
....

I'm at 760AD. I played the Renaissance poorly, going to Democracy too soon in 460AD. My long trireme chains caused unhappiness, and stalled growth until I got Magnetism in 640AD. Also, 2 AI have gunpowder [like Ali's game, but probably sooner]. I'm trying to crush them before they can bulk up, and have taken their capitals, but my Senate has not allowed total war. I'm hoping to go to soft Fundy next turn, and start mopping up.

Also, the repawn zone is quite hard to get to ... continent 19 seems everywhere, and shaped like spaghetti, hard to get past it from the NW. Seems I'll need 5-10 engineers, just to build canal cities on 19 [?].

 

[Magic_gorter]

I just started playing. I build 6 cities at the home island and kept the NON settler. I got a horsemen from the hut.

I irrigated all tiles at 850 BC and build Marco at 1100 BC (IIRC).

It now 100 AD and I have finished
Hanging Gardens,
Colossus
Michelangelo's.

My trading game is not as is should be, but I hope I can start cashing soon. Still in Monarchy but will switch soon to Republic. 12 cities so far.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I've enjoyed the latter part as well, since the human is naturally handicapped a bit. Did you save your NON's, like most players ? Or build cities ASAP, as I did ? I'm guessing you built, and that your plan is best ... I didn't analyze size-one-ing twice, but it seems to have worked well for you and Grigor.

I built a city with the NON settler.

Sounds like you [or Grigor] won the irrigation race. Your results to 1000BC sound very similar to mine, with 1 extra settler [but one of mine was a new nomad], 1 less boat.

No. My last square of irrigation was in 1050 BC, so you beat me by a turn and Grigor beat me by eight.

Also familiar. Did you already have pottery ? I got pots in 850BC + HG in approx 800BC, an annoying glitch, but not too serious. I'm guessing you could do approx the same.

If I had actually planned to build the Hanging Gardens, I would have made sure to get the tech, though I didn't have it when I left the island. On a large map, I can usually get by without the Gardens, so I wasn't concerned about getting them, but this map seems to have the happiness of a normal sized map, and not a large one.

At this point, I think the sixth city (on the swamp) was a bad idea since it had minimal production, and that I would have been better off keeping the settler that built it around for irrigation work. With Monarchy and the need to irrigate a lot anyway, I don't think that keeping the NON settler makes a huge difference over having a supported settler (though if you are going to keep one around at the start, it might as well be the NON). I think that the optimal number of cities is either 4 or 5, with 3 of them sharing the peat square. If the fifth city is built, I would also have it share the peat.

 

[Peaster]

No. My last square of irrigation was in 1050 BC, so you beat me by a turn and Grigor beat me by eight.

I meant to say that you had a slightly better start. I agree with one of your posts, that getting off the island is not the only early goal. I'm giving you the edge over me, based on your 13 settlers in 1000BC. But I'm hoping to hear more from Grigor - he may be tops.

If I had actually planned to build the Hanging Gardens, I would have made sure to get the tech, though I didn't have it when I left the island. On a large map, I can usually get by without the Gardens, so I wasn't concerned about getting them, but this map seems to have the happiness of a normal sized map, and not a large one.

?.... Traditional Civ2 wisdom is that with 13 settlers, you'll build approx 13 new cities asap. You need HG after about the 10th city, meaning your production/etc will suffer without it. You and I both should have researched pottery before literacy, and built HG asap, perhaps by building fewer settlers. Unless you know something I don't.

But I'm not unhappy about my early game, and my 1ad stats seem good to me, since I like cities.

... I think that the optimal number of cities is either 4 or 5, with 3 of them sharing the peat square.

Dunno... can't argue this point well yet, but hope to analyze the early game more later. I guessed that the extra cities were useful, to produce and support more settlers, which I definitely value. You do get an extra shield per turn from the 6th city, and it's one less tile to irrigate. It may help rush the first boats and vans for WoWs while leaving the island. Not sure about the balance of pros and cons yet though.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

?.... Traditional Civ2 wisdom is that with 13 settlers, you'll build approx 13 new cities asap. You need HG after about the 10th city, meaning your production/etc will suffer without it. You and I both should have researched pottery before literacy, and built HG asap, perhaps by building fewer settlers. Unless you know something I don't.

Normally at deity, I'll use warriors to maintain happiness. On the occasions that I do play regular games, my strategy is usually to build up to around the Monarchy limit of 18 (maybe a couple less), and then switch my emphasis to the wonder races and possibly a half-decent road network. I resume expansion after I get Mike's and switch to Republic. This obviously works better if you are building cities one or two at a time (and can move the martial law units in), and not the prospective 13 cities that I was going to build in short order. So even at normal happiness levels, I should have built the Hanging Gardens.