GOTM 141 Spoiler

[That Scott Dude]

This should be an entertaining read. This is my ENTIRE game, so don't read ahead if you aren't that far along yet.

GOTM 141
4000 BC - Persepolis founded. Not crazy about the starting location but unwilling to waste time looking for a better spot. Using the fishies. Building a warrior. Pursuing Alphabet in a run for Monarchy.
3800 - Switched to the buffalo for more resource shields.
3700 - Pursuing Ceremonial Burial. Warrior built, building Settler. Began exploring with Warrior.
3600 - Switched back to fishies.
3300 - Opened a goodie hut and found a friendly Chariot. Good timing: Persepolis just grew to 2.
3250 - Since no advances leading to Monarchy are available, pursuing Map Making, to help me get out of this jungle-filled hell-hole. Who made this dang map??
3200 - Switched from working the grassland (shield) square to the buffalo. So I've got the starting square, the fishies, and the buffalo.
3000 - Discovered an advanced tribe (Pasargadae). Sweet! Can't tell you where since I still can't find a way to display the coordinates. Building settler.
2750 - Saw a purple warrior dude approaching Pasargadae so I quickly switched to Warrior, wasting 2 shields. Also, Persepolis built a settler, resulting in a loss of the Chariot that it could no longer support when the population fell to 1. Oops!
2700 - Fortified my first warrior, built back in 3700, to protect Persepolis, since that purple dude is moving toward it now. Looks like I switched production in Pasargade for nothing, since he is bypassing that city.
2650 - Built a road on the Grassland (shield) square next to Persepolis.
2550 - The purple dude turned out to be a Mongol Emissary. He was quite cordial. Exchanged knowledge and got Ceremonial Burial and Masonry. Since Monarchy is still off the table, decided to pursue Bronze Working so I can go for trade.
2350 - Had to switch workers off the Peat bog onto a water square, to slow production of my settler in Pasargadae. I was in danger of disbanding the city.
1950 - Pursuing Monarchy (Finally!). Put a road and irrigation on the buffalo square in Persepolis.
1850 - Pasargadae built a settler. Whew! That was close. Population fell to 1 and there is NO food in the box. Pasargadae is now producing a trireme.
1700 - Founded Susa. Producing warrior.
1600 - Persepolis made a settler. (He's naughty. He's a naughty little settler.) I don't like how this game is going at all.
1550 - Egyptian civilization destroyed by the Greeks. Great. Now there won't be any Pharoahs.
1500 - Barbarians parked a trireme next to Pasargadae. I switched production to Phalanx, wasting one shield. Ugh. Founded Arbela in a forest square on the far west end of this little continent and started building Warrior there.
1450 - The barbarian trireme spat out a barbarian archer 2 sqaures from Pasargadae, so I disbanded the warrior in that city and bought another Phalanx (spending 41 gold). Next turn, I'll have 2 Phalanxes, ready to face the big, bad, barbie.
1400 - Gaaa! The barbarian Archer is headed for Persepolis! (What the hell? Is Pasargadae invisible?) Switched production in Persepolis from settler to Phalanx and spent 8 gold to rush it. I'm down to 32 gold.
1350 - This barbarian archer is nuts. Now he's headed back the other way, toward Pasargadae.
1300 - Oh lord. Now he's headed for Susa. I only have a warrior there. Switched production from settler to warrior. Enough gold to rush the extra warrior but not enough for a phalanx.
1200 - Archer attacked Susa. One warrior defeated him. Whew.
1100 - Yay! I have monarchy! I love the king! I love ME!
900 - Finally have a trireme. I'm going places, now baby!
850 - 100,000 citizens.
800 - I see a Greek horseman on the shore of the land to the north. Rotten Greeks.
550 - Pursuing Trade. Have explored with 3 triremes and landed a settler on one of the islands to the northwest.
425 - Founded Antioch.
400 - Founded Tarsus.
325 - Pursuing Writing.
225 - 200,000 citizens. Pursuing Trade.
200 - Founded Gordium on the far west end of that big continent to the north, that the rotten Greeks are on, with two whale squares. I took a warrior with me, and will make a phalanx. I fear the Greeks.
125 - Pursuing Literacy.
25 - Had to delay building settlers in Tarsus or it was going to disband the city. Oops!

1 AD -- 7 cities, 210,000 citizens, Monarchy, 142 Gold. Net income: 9. Discoveries: Every 9 turns. Mongols are Hostile. Not where I wanted to be at 1 AD. Hating this map. The whole thing is a jungle-filled, mountainous hell-hole.
60 - 300,000 citizens. Pursuing Philosophy. I can never resist the temptation to try to get Philosophy first.
180 - Founded Sidon.
200 - Founded Bactra.
240 - Founded Tyre.
260 - Saved game. Forgot to at 1 AD. Barbarian Archer attacked Susa. Susa held.
300 - 400,000 citizens.
320 - Built the Pyramids!
400 - Looks like the Spanish picked up where the Egyptians left off.
420 - Mongols just attacked Bactra. I only had a phalanx in it and now they're dead.
440 - Mongols took Bactra. Population fell to 1. Oh, they are sooooo going to pay... Switching all caravan production to elephants.
560 - Mongols ended war and signed peace treaty. Wait til they see what I have planned for them!
580 - Founded Sardis.
660 - Attacked Bactra, which only had Pop. 1, destroying it. Greek warrior landed near Arbela. Signed a peace treaty with the rotten Greeks and they had no interest in trading science. I must be ahead of them.
720 - Greeks have begun building Copernicus' Observatory. I now realize they are ahead -- way ahead.
920 - Discovered Invention. Will start building Leonardo's Workship as soon as I finish the Great Wall. Started pursuing Mathematics.
1000 AD - 10 cities, 1,450,000 citizens. Signed peace treaty with Mongols. Built Great Wall.
1480 - Built Leonardo's Workshop.
1560 - Pursuing Economics.
1630 - Spanish destroyed by the Mongols.
1650 - Built Adam Smith's.
1720 - Founded Samaria.
1750 - Discovered Democracy, pursuing Seafaring.
1752 - Incited revolt in Alleppo, which is one square away from where Bactra was. Massing Crusaders for a major assault on the Mongols.
1756 - Aztecs destroyed by Barbarians. I think that's the last time Yellow will spawn.
1764 - Built Statue of Liberty.
1778 - Gave up trying to take the Mongol city Kashgar. My crusaders attack is too lame to get through the city wall. Assault strategy is a failure.
1800 - Switched to Democracy. Adjusted taxes/science/Luxuries to 10/80/10. I have a net income of 14 and discoveries every 5 turns.
1812 - Established Greek embassy. I see they have 19 cities to my 11. Not good.
1814 - Discovered Metallurgy, so no more Great Wall. Good thing I built walls in key cities. Pursuing Conscription.
1828 - Discovered Tactics, pursuing Amphibious Warfare. Switched to fundamentalism. Will use a Diplomatic strategy.
1840 - Incited revolt in Kashgar.
1856 - Incited revolt in Tabriz.
1865 - Incited revolt in Bokhara. Captured Magellan's Expedition.
1866 - Incited revolt in Cordoba.
1870 - Attacked and captured Karakorum and the Lighthouse.
1871 - Incited revolt in Samarakand. Captured Sun Tzu's War Acadamy.
1872 - Incited revolt in Nishapur.
1876 - Incited revolt in Seville (Used to be Spanish but that civilization is gone. It's Mongolian).
1878 - Greeks declare war.
1880 - Incited revolt in Omuz (Mongolian).
1883 - Attacked and captured Rhodes.
1884 - Incited revolt in Madrid (Mongolian). 10,000,000 citizens.
1886 - Greeks incite revolt in Samaria. Rotten Greek bastards.
1887 - Incited revolt in Valencia (Mongol).
1889 - Attacked and captured Thessalonica. Captured Shakespeare's Theater. Incited revolt in Samaria. Got it back. 11,000,000 citizens.
1891 - Incited revolt in Halicarnassus. I now have every technology the Greeks have.
1895 - Captured Mycenae and Newton's College. Down to 288 gold.
1897 – Incited revolt in Miletos (Greek).
1900 – Incited revolt in Kabul (Mongolian). I’m not sure but I think there is only one Mongol city left. I'm at 13,520,000 citizens. 30 cities. At war with Mongols and Greeks. War will end when they are all dead.
1902 – Captured Marathon (Greek).
1903 – Greeks capture Samaria. What is it about Samaria???
1905 – Incited revolt in Ephesos and captured Marco Polo’s Embassy. Incited revolt in Basra (Mongol). Destroyed Mongol civilization.
1906 – Incited revolt in Samaria. Got it back AGAIN. Sheesh.
1908 – 15,000,000 citizens.
1909 – Founded Hamadan on a foresty island southeast of the original starting location.
1910 – Incited revolt in Knossos, capturing King Richard’s Crusade and the Eiffel Tower. Captured Pharsalos.
1914 – Attacked Artemesium, Pop. 1, destroying it. Acquired Railroad, the only tech there was to acquire.
1916 – Incited revolt in Eretria.
1919 – Incited revolt in Herakleia. Captured Delphi.
1923 - Incited revolt in Thermopylae. Captured Collosus, Copernicus' Observatory, and J.S. Bach's Cathedral.
1924 - Incited revolt in Pergamon.
1925 - Incited revolt in Sparta.
1926 - Incited revolt in Argos and destroyed production of Women's Suffrage. Not that it matters at this point. Incited revolt in Corinth.
1929 - Athens captured. Greeks destroyed. Game saved. 45 cities and 21,440,000 citizens.

Final score: 944. Civilization Rating: 94%. All hail Xerxes the Fair. Looking back, I can see that if I had expanded south and conquered the Mongols early, I could have tangled with the Greeks sooner as well and I probably would have ended the game sooner. Meh. I suppose I did show a little improvement over the last game, since I finished sooner at a harder level. Looking forward to next month!

 

[Major Advantage]

This is my ENTIRE game ...

Well, usually we post our games chapter by chapter and don't reveal the end date until later.

The map is terrible, we really should have deserved some compensation (2nd settler or starting techs). My start was a little rough, but now things seem to be going in the right direction.

-3900 Persepolis founded at 4-special site, go for warrior & s1-settler
-3800 Begin alphabet
-3700 warrior reveals peat, nice
-3550 hut: masonry! bad
-3400? Alph->Bronze
-3300 hut: 100g
-3050 Pasargadae founded at river mouth, warrior meets Mongols, peace, they offer hbr, denied
-2750? Bronze->Laws
-2700? Empty hut
-2400 Susa founded
-2350 Samarkand discovered
-2300 Laws ->Burial
-2150 Arbela founded
-2050 angry Mongols demand Laws and want no more techs from me! So nothing more to trade for

Stats at -2000
pop.: 60k; cities: 4; techs: 4; gov: Desp, gold: 27, cost per turn: 0
units: 0 settler, 2 army

wonders: -

Mongols: enraged, peace

plan: Monarchy, mapmaking, find better spots to settle

-1900 Burial->Mapmaking
-1800 Empty greeek trireme on our shore
-1550 Egypt empiredestroyed by greeks, 50g from hut
-1450 Antioch founded
-1400 Mapmaking->Monarchy
-1250 first trireme built, warrior is near Tenochtitlan
-1200 find out that island #5 is not much better than home continent
-1150 Meet Aztecs, give MM, peace, no alliance
-1100 Oak Island founded on cont.#8
-1000 Gordium founded west of Mongols
-975 Mon.->Writing; Bactra founded on cont.8

Stats at -975
pop.: 120k; cities: 8; techs: 7; gov: Desp, gold: 44, cost per turn: 0
units: 0 settler, 3 army, 1 boat

wonders: -

Mongols: enraged, peace
Aztecs: enth., peace

plan: establish Monarchy, then head for better attack units and start war

 

[That Scott Dude]

Well, usually we post our games chapter by chapter and don't reveal the end date until later.

Oops.

Anyway, you have twice the number of cities than I had at -975. Did you have any Barbarians visit you? I think that may have slowed me down, since I switched production from settlers to rush military units.

You mention "Island #5" and "continent #8". Where are you getting these numbers?

 

[Major Advantage]

Oops.

Anyway, you have twice the number of cities than I had at -975. Did you have any Barbarians visit you? I think that may have slowed me down, since I switched production from settlers to rush military units.

I don't remember any barb activity early on, just a mongol warrior exploring.
Despite the bad terrain, I think that founding cities is still the top priority early on. With a river nearby and good specials (fish, peat, buffalo), cities at size 2-3 can wok very efficiently.

You mention "Island #5" and "continent #8". Where are you getting these numbers?

See here:

25. BLACK CLICKING

Some players consider this a "cheat" rather than a "trick", but you can find out something about the terrain that you have not explored yet. When you right-click a "black" tile, the righthand info bar will show something like: "Loc (39,47) 8" with the word "Unexplored" right under it. The number 8 is the key here: if it were a 1, the tile would be Ocean, any other number up to 62 usually denotes an island or continent (they are numbered sequentially by the game generator, starting in the upper left corner of the map). Number 63 is reserved for small inland "lakes". There are exceptions to the general rule, primarily when the map generator is set for Large Land Mass, Continental Land Form, which creates one very large continent that usually gets the number 1. Also when large inland "seas" are totally cut off from the ocean, they can get assigned a separate "island number".

If you can get your coordinate-problem fixed, you should see the continent-number right next to the coordinates.

 

[That Scott Dude]

If you can get your coordinate-problem fixed, you should see the continent-number right next to the coordinates.

Oh, I guess you didn't see my post in the gotm 140 thread. I can see coordinates now. I just had to upgrade to civ 2.42. My version was old -- I did buy the game as soon as it came out in the stores. You know, back when there WERE software stores!

 

[haleewud]

-4000 Persepolis founded, work fish, T/L/S = 5/0/5
-3950 Start Alphabet, work Buffalo, T/L/S = 4/0/6
-3800 warrior, start settler
-3500 Alphabet -> Code of Laws
-3450 Hut -> Chariot
-3400 Egyptians destroyed by Greeks (replaced by Aztecs - from Top Cities)
-3300 Hut -> Nomads
-3150 disband warrior in Persepolis
-3100 Settler (size 1)
-3050 Nomad founds Pasargadae

stats at -3000:
pop.: .04M; cities: 2; techs: 1, gov: Despotism, gold: 6; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 1 Settler, 1 Chariot
wonders: None
Footprint: 2 cities in Persia

Egyptians: Destroyed by Greeks
Aztecs: No Contact
Greeks: No Contact
Mongols: No Contact


-2950 CoL -> Map Making (24)
-2900 Susa founded
-2700 Mongols sighted near Pasargadae
-2650 Mongols contact, Trade Alphbet for Bronze Working with Mongols (36), Peace
-2550 Map Making -> Ceremonial Burial (45)
-2100 Mongols discover Masonry, Arbela founded
-2050 CB -> Currency (54), Hut -> Nomad

stats at -2000:
pop.: .06M; cities: 4; techs: 5, gov: Despotism, gold: 57; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 2 Settlers, 1 Warrior, 1 Chariot, 1 Trireme
wonders: None
Footprint: 4 cities in Persia

Egyptians: Destroyed by Greeks
Aztecs: No Contact
Greeks: No Contact
Mongols: No Embassy


-1950 Antioch founded
-1900 Tarsus founded
-1700 Currency -> Monarchy (63)
-1550 Aztecs destroyed by Greeks
-1450 Monarchy -> Trade (88), Monarchy established, Contact Mongols, give MM, trade CB for Masonry, give all remaining techs (81), exchange maps
-1350 Hut -> 4 barb Horsemen
-1300 Chariot killed by barb Horse
-1200 Gordium founded
-1100 Trade -> Mysticism (110)

stats at -1000:
pop.: .17M; cities: 7; techs: 9, gov: Monarchy, gold: 169; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 5 Settlers, 2 Warrior, 1 Trireme
wonders: None
Footprint: 5 cities In Persia, 1 city on 5, 1 city on 8

Egyptians: Destroyed by Greeks
Aztecs: Destroyed by Greeks
Greeks: No Contact
Mongols: No Embassy


-925 Bactra founded, Sidon founded
-900 Susa produces first food caravan
-875 Mysticism -> Writing (121)
-800 Tyre founded
-725 Writing -> Literacy (144)
-675 Barbs land near Persepolis, Bribe Archer and Trireme
-650 4 vans to Susa
-625 Susa builds MPE
Give Masonry, CoL and Myst to Spanish, get Pottery in Tribute (156)
Give Pottery to Mongols, get 100 in Tribute
Give MM, Mon, Masonry, Myst to Greeks, exchange maps
-575 Literacy -> Philosophy (168) Gordium Hides to Persepolis 64, Tarsus Hides to Antioch 56
-550 Give Mysticism to Mongols, trade Literarcy for Warrior Code (180)
-525 Philosophy -> Feudalism -> HBR (238), Trade with Greeks, Philo for Polytheism and Feudalism for HBR (266)
-500 Start Iron Working, Trade with Greeks Currency for Iron Working (440), 150 tribute from Mongols



stats at -500:
pop.: .58M; cities: 11; techs: 19, gov: Monarchy, gold: 316; trade routes: 4D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 2 Settler, 10 Warriors, 3 Phalanx, 1 Archer, 2 Trireme, 1 Diplomat, 4 Caravans
wonders: MPE
Footprint: 8 cities in Persia, 1 on 5, 2 on 8

Egyptians: Destroyed by Greeks
Aztecs: Destroyed by Greeks
Spanish : 2 Cities, 8 Tech, 58 Gold. Peace, Despotism
Greeks: 6 Cities, 17 Tech, 489 Gold. Peace, Despotism
Mongols: 3 Cities, 13 Tech, 1 Gold. Peace, Monarchy

-475 start Monotheism (440)
-450 Greek Givt overthrown
-425 Greeks start Sun Tzu, establish Monarchy, Persepolis Gems to Antioch 54
-400 Susa builds Sun Tzu
-375 Samaria founded
-325 50 tribute from Spanish and Mongols
-275 Sparta builds HG
-225 Greeks develop Seafaring
-200 Monotheism -> Math
-175 Hut -> Advance Tribe -> Hamadan
-150 bribe Spanish warrior 87
-125 Attack size 3 Madrid, Kill 2 Phalanx, Madrid razed (21), Bribe Seville 116 (36+Phalanx_Settler), Spanish destroyed (no respawn)
-100 Hut -> Math
-75 start Astronomy, Hut -> 3 barb Horse + Legion
-50 Elephant killed by Barb Legion
-25 Hut -> Crusader (NON)
+1 Mongols expel diplomat

stats at +1:
pop.: 1.05M; cities: 14; techs: 21, gov: Monarchy, gold: 104; trade routes: 6D0F; cost/turn:0
units: 2 Settler, 11 Warrior, 3 Phalanx, 1 Archer, 6 Pikemen, 6 Elephants, 7 Crusaders, 7 Trireme, 1 Diplomat, 5 Caravans
wonders: MPE, Sun Tzu
Footprint: 9 cities in Persia, 2 on 1 (Greece), 1 on 5, 2 on 8

Egyptians: Destroyed by Greeks
Aztecs: Destroyed by Greeks
Spanish : Destroyed by Persians
Greeks: 7 Cities, 19 Tech, 638 Gold. Peace, Monarchy, HG
Mongols: 4 Cities, 16 Tech, 127 Gold. Peace, Monarchy

 

[Inkerman]

Ah our friends the Mongols and Greeks, both militaristic expansionsists.
But if it is rough terrain we know the AI will find it even more difficult.
At least it is Egyptians not Spanish making things up.

Reading the map analysis - so we take the hint and go south-east

3950- Thebes, Athens and Karakorum have been founded.
3900- Found Persepolis. Start Alphabet. Priority shields.
3700- Complete warrior. Warrior finds peat (no point in checking the sea special.)
- gives 3 shields in despotism. Size 1 trick indicated.
3450- Discover Alphabet -> CoL. Find river to west.
3300- Pop hut - nomads! They go west.
3200- Settlers built at Persepolis. Nomads found Pasargadae at (11,19).
3050- Susa founded at (17,17) Pasargadae has no shielded grassland.
3000-

2950- Discover CoL -> Mapmaking.
Reflecting on this - not sure this is consistent with my choice of city builds. My first city site looks more to super science than geographic expansion, and BW would perhaps be better.
2900- Persepolis size 2, warrior Persepolis, other one rehomed to Pasargadae.
2750- Meet Mongols, give Alphabet (they offered Bronze Working).
We are Mighty and Spotless.
Pop hut (21,21) - advanced tribe Arbela. Good hut luck today.

We are on one straggly end of continent #2, with Mongols on the single Mountain square connecting to the rest.
Enough space for one 1 more city (we have four now.)
2550- Discover Mapmaking -> CB. Now supreme.
2200- Discover CB -> Monarchy.
Swap mapmaking to get Bronze Working. Give CB.
2150- Give Mongols CoL.
Pasargadae and Susa complete settlers.
2050- Pas settler pauses to make road. Per settler is irrigating.
2000-

1900- Per settler founds Antioch Island on continent #5.
Pas settler founds Tarsus at (9,15).
1850- Aiming for -1650 for Monarchy.

Egyptians destroyed by Greeks (but respawn is on - will we now get the Spanish?)

1800- We have gone to Mighty.
1650- Discover Monarchy -> Currency. Become Monarchy. Back to Supreme.
1550- Barbs next to Antioch. Found Gordium on continent #3 at (13,7). Rush defence Antioch.
1500- Barbs land by Antioch. Settlers at Persepolis.
Phalanx attacks Barb archers at Antioch but loses.
1450- Barbs take Antioch.
Arbela can do 9 shields but is limited to size 2 at present - what build? - temple, and sell?
1400- Found Bactra at (26,26) on continent #8.
1350- Oops, Tarsus has been put on wrong square - 4 special available was next space.
1300- Discover Currency -> Trade.
1250- Settlers start draining marsh for Arbela.
1000- Arbela builds marketplace - sell it allows RB of same in Persepolis.
Arbela starts a wonder.

Stats: 11 in 7 cities (+1 on loan to barbs), 7 techs. About to have a cost of 1/turn.

Comments: Similar to games of Major and haleewud at this point.

 

[Inkerman]

975- Discover Trade -> Writing. Persepolis builds marketplace.
950- Found Sidon (25,7) on continent #1. Mongols give 100g tribute.
925- Meet Aztecs, give Trade for Republic. They also have Masonry. Give Republic to Mongols.
850- Discover Writing -> Literacy. Science reduced.
800- Greeks approach near Sidon, we give Repubic, they take, and demand monarchy too - we demur - war. Our trireme off the coast of continent #1 meets a Greek trireme - and is lost attacking it.
775- Warrior lost to Greeks.
750- Another warrior lost to Greeks.
Van, Gordium(2)-Persepolis(4), Silk, for 54g.
Settler completes swamp drainage for Arbela.
725- Increase science.
700- Greeks start Colossus. Discover Literacy -> Mysticism.
675- Barb leader taken near Gordium for 50g.
Give writing to Mongols. As a sign of friendship they give HBR.
550- Mongols demo Polytheism. Revolution.
525- Become Republic.
500-
stats: 8 cities, 12 techs, war, no wonders.

475- Give Writing to Aztecs, they swap maps. They have 1 city.
Rush Colossus to use up money as Pasargadae about to be captured.
450- Barbs capture Pasargadae. Persepolis builds Colossus. Greeks change to LH. 26g to buy Pasargadae back, we get a vet archer.

400- Discover Mysticism -> Philosophy
Van, Persepolis(5)-Tenochtitlan(Aztec,4), Beads (und-just!), for 100g.
Use money to incite revolt of Barb Antioch Island.
375- Greeks approach and make peace in return for monarchy.
350- Aztecs brag about Pottery. Persepolis builds Temple.
Discover Philosophy -> Medicine -> Masonry
Swap Philosophy and Monarchy to Aztecs for Masonry and Pottery.
Give Philosophy, Medicine, Trade and Literacy to Greeks, get maps.
Mistake in ship movement (have 4 now, it's getting tricky for me.)
325- Start on Maths.
Van, Gordium-Tenochtitlan(Aztec,4), Beads(und), for 132g.
275- Persepolis builds library and reaches size 8.
250- Discover Maths -> Seafaring.
Arbela completes MPE (it did it all on its own.)

Stats.
54g. Supreme (and spotless.) Republic. Total cost 3.
2 settler, 5 warrior, 3 phalanx, 1 archer, 4 trireme, 2 dips, 5 vans.
Pop: 28 in 9 cities. 18 techs.
Colossus, MPE.

Aztecs: Enthusiastic, Peace. 1 city, 14 techs.
Greeks: Enthusiastic, Peace. 5 cities, 18 techs. (Constr, WC).
Mongols: Receptive, Peace. 4 cities, 14 techs. (Poly, WC).

Give Literacy to Aztecs.
Give Pottery and CoL to Greeks, get Construction.
Give Pottery and Construction to Mongols, get Polytheism. Swap maps.

225-
200- Aztecs get Construction, Polytheism from Mongols. Mongols get Monarchy, Literacy from Aztecs.
175-
150- Greeks nearly done LH. Civil disorder Bactra. Persepolis builds Hanging Gardens.
125- Athens builds Lighthouse.
Van, Tarsus-Bokhara(Mongol, 4), Gems(und), for 54g.
100- Mongols develop Iron. Aztecs develop Seafaring. They do a swap.
75- Arbela builds Temple, Persepolis builds Aqueduct.
Swap Mysticism to Aztecs to get Seafaring.
Van, Sidon-Persepolis, Silver, for 150g.
50- Discover Astronomy -> Monotheism.
Greeks decline Seafaring for WC, as they want Polytheism.
25- Susa builds Temple.
Van, Bactra-Tenochtitlan(Aztec,4), Hides, for 208g.
1AD - Aztecs get WC from Mongols, Mongols get Mysticism from Aztecs.
Tarsus builds Temple, Persepolis builds Colosseum. Pop 1m.
Gordium gets to 3 also happy.
Greek(5) catapult appears by Sidon, we give Polytheism, they withdraw.
Mongols(4) swap Iron Working for Maths, refuse map swap.

Stats.
27g. Supreme (and spotless.) Republic. Total cost 13.
2 settler, 5 warrior, 3 phalanx, 1 archer, 4 trireme, 2 dips, 5 vans.
Pop: 36 in 9 cities. 23 techs. 3F6D.
Colossus, HG, MPE. Others: LH.

Aztecs: Enthusiastic, Peace. 1 city, 21 techs.
Greeks: Cordial, Peace. 5 cities, 21 techs. (WC).
Mongols: Receptive, Peace. 4 cities, 22 techs. (WC).

Persepolis more developed, a couple more techs, a bit more trade, but several fewer cities than haleewud. And much much less military. Our games seem likely to diverge.

Tempted by building cities and improving terrain in this world. Several continents so should get trade going. Push on with tech using Persepolis as SSC.

 

[Major Advantage]

I don't think there is much point in going on and finish my game. Just too many things went the wrong way: Bad terrain, early mongol vicinitiy, greatly expanding greeks who managed to build 11 cities and HG and Sun Tzu by 1 AD. I was trying for EC, but now my Crusaders are less useful against vet vet pikemen behind city walls. I could turn things around by switching over to science/trade and aim for landing or HTC (high-tech-conquest), but I prefer to spend my RL-time on the next GOTM.

Here is how things went on:

-925 Monarchy established
-900 Warrior shipped over to huge cont.1
-850 Greeks land near Antioch (NW) and declare war right away!
-825 warrior on hill survives greek warrior attack
-800 Writing->Literacy
-775 discover Delphi, hail Greeks, deny writing, still war
-750 hail Greeks, give writing, peace, no tech-trade, no alliance
-675 Sidon founded on cont.#1
-650 Lit.->Myst.
-625 Embassy with Mongols (bribing Samarkand would be 360g), Tyre on cont.#5
-575 Greeks build HG
-550 Sardis(1), Samaria(2, deep south) founded
-500 hail Aztecs, exchange maps, no tribute

Stats at -500
pop.: 280k; cities: 12; techs: 10; gov: Mon, gold: 37, cost per turn: 0
units: 4 settler, 6 army, 2 boat, 2 dip

wonders: -

Mongols: icy, peace
Aztecs: enth., peace
Greeks: bad-mood, peace

plan: tech goal is monotheism, then conquest with crusaders, maybe michelangelo

-450 Silk City founded; now riot factor kicks in
-375 Philo->Republic(nothing on the mono-path)->HBR, get HBr from Mongols (for republic)
-350 Research Poly, embassy with Greece, they already have Poly
-325 hail greeks, get poly (for rep. and myst.)
-300 research Mono
-275 Dariush Kabir founded on cont.#1 deep south
-225 Mongols sneak attack, kill a settler, Mono->Currency, Zohak, Ghulaman founded
-200 get currency from Greece
(Mongols raze Samaria)
-175 Research trade, Istakr founded close to Greece
-100 Attack Samarkand, 2 defenders killed
-75 Samarkand captured (90g+wheel)
-50 Athens builds Sun Tzu

Stats at +1
pop.: 550k; cities: 19; techs: 17; gov: Mon, gold: 222, cost per turn: 0
units: 4 settler, 14 crusaders, 20 other army, 5 boat, 4 dip

wonders: -

Mongols: bad-mood, war, 4 cities
Aztecs: enth., peace
Greeks: neutral, peace, 11 cities, HG, Sun Tzu

plan: Conquer Mongolia down to pet city, launch attack on Greece, build Michelangelo to solve happiness problems

20 Trade-construction
40 Nishapur razed (30g+Warrior code)
60 Attack Bokhara, empty and size 1
80 Bokhara NOT razed but bribed 66 gold, get 30 back + settler; Crusader discovers Karakorum, sign cease fire, decline peace offer at first, accept for 175g, Mongols down to 2 cities, 1 unkown
100 Borazjan, Herat founded, now we are in really deep riot trouble
120 Dakyanus founded at southern coast in former Mongolia, prepare attack on 3 greek cities in 2 turns
140 Bampur founded, move Crusaders in position
160 Demand greek tribute, they withdraw (?!), spare them one more turn
(WTF??? During greek turn, all my assault units are withdrawn, with no option to cancel peace?)
200 Demand tribute, they withdraw again, attack Delphi, empty but both Crusaders wounded
(Phalanx & 3 Crusaders lost on hill outside Thebes)
220 wounded vet crusader lost to pikeman, non-vet retreats, re-inforcement shipped in
240 Capture Delphi (41g + construction)
(take a long break before picking up the game again)
260 Research Math, Michelangelo built as first wonder
300 Greek Knight steps out of Thebes, vet Crusader kills pikeman and Legion, captured (46g + Feudalism +60g for granaries) via boat from Istakhr, Tureng Tepe founded, two Crusaders dropped off on mountain outside Thermopylae
(Crusaders killed by knight)
320 discover Athens but drop off Crusaders at Ephesos (on island 7 instead)

 

[Inkerman]

Major's post surprises me.

Not regarding the decision on not finishing the game - Civ2 can take a lot of time and if the situation is not found interesting then it will be hard to do it.

Rather how many cities the AI has in the game at AD1, and how the military situation looks unpromising by AD 320.

In my game at AD1 the Greeks have 5 cities; in Major's the Greeks have 11. I don't think I've seen such variation before in a GotM. (In haleewud's there are 7.)

In my game (which is quite well advanced now) the Greeks don't find 11 suitable city sites ever.

Also I was maybe a bit more fortunate with the AI ancient wonder.

 

[haleewud]

I was also a bit surprised at Major's post. Of course, the lack of anything on the Mono path when Philosopy was discovered may have changed his plans. I got Feudalism for free from Philosophy and built Sun Tzu shortly after. The vet Elephants and Crusaders were almost unstoppable.

In my game, the Greeks built their 7th (and last) actual city in 60AD (or technically at the end of 40AD). At that moment they had 8 cities (Tenochtitlan was captured from the Aztecs). But it only lasted a moment since I captured Athens and Sparta on my turn in 60AD.

 

[Inkerman]

I was not aiming for war but spent much of this time fighting one against the Mongols.
I was planning on technical advances but, because of the war, made only a few.

20- Van, Tarsus-Bokhara, Dye, for 108g.
40- Bactra builds Temple.
Discover Monotheism -> Wheel.
Arbela builds harbour.
Persepolis reaches size 12.
Van, Gordium-Athens(Greek,5), Wine, for 333g.
60- Greeks start GL.
80- Sidon builds harbour.
Discover Wheel -> Engineering.
100- Van Pasaragadae-Sidon, Hides, for 96g.
Swap Astronomy to Aztecs for WC.
120- Persepolis builds harbour.
Van, Antioch Is -Tenochtitlan(Aztec,5), for 264g.
Give Wheel to Mongols, Aztecs.
140-
160- Sneak attack by Mongols -settler lost.
Mongols -Aztecs swap techs. Discover Engineering -> Banking.
Reduce science.
180- Another settler lost as we put it on mountains vs Mongol ele.
Crusader destroys two Mongol ellies.
Found Tyre, on Bactra's island #8.
200- Greeks develop Iron. Civil disorder Bactra.
220- Found Sardis.
240-
260-
280- Bribe Mongol Kashgar for 80g - get 33g and a phalanx with the city.
300- Found Samaria on continent #1.
320- Aztecs develop Bridge Building.
Persepolis builds Michaelangelo's Chapel.
340- Found Hamadan on Gordium's island #3.
360- Crusaders capture Mongol Bokhara.
Bribe Samarkand for 560g (have to sell a temple to raise funds - would have been better to use crusaders but didn't manage the moving well enough). Got 2 units and 107g. Mongols now have 2 cities.
380- Swap Monotheism to Aztecs for Bridge Building.
400-
420- Persepolis builds Copernicus Observatory.
Senate agrees peace with Mongols.
Found Ergili on island #8.
440- Mongols expel a diplomat.
Found Dariush Kabir.
Give bridge building to Mongols.
460-
480-
500- Discover Banking -> Sanitation. Give Banking to Aztecs.

Stats.
48g. Supreme (and spotless.) Republic. Total cost 18.
12 settler, 4 warrior, 4 phalanx, 2 archer, 3 crusaders, 5 trireme, 5 dips, 5 vans.
Pop: 56 in 18 cities. 29 techs.
Colossus, HG, MPE, Mike's, Copernicus. Others: LH.

Aztecs: Enthusiastic, Peace. 1 city, 27 techs.
Greeks: Hostile, Peace. 6 cities, 22 techs.
Mongols: Uncooperative, Peace. 2 cities, 25 techs.

 

[Major Advantage]

I was also a bit surprised at Major's post. Of course, the lack of anything on the Mono path when Philosopy was discovered may have changed his plans. I got Feudalism for free from Philosophy and built Sun Tzu shortly after. The vet Elephants and Crusaders were almost unstoppable.

In my game, the Greeks built their 7th (and last) actual city in 60AD (or technically at the end of 40AD). At that moment they had 8 cities (Tenochtitlan was captured from the Aztecs). But it only lasted a moment since I captured Athens and Sparta on my turn in 60AD.

Not really. That was just a minor disadvantage, and having republic is a good thing even if you want to stay in monarchy since the AI are more peaceful and better research assistants in republic. I also was not really pursuing feudalism to keep the warrior-slot open as long as possible.

Since I had declared my game over, I took the freedom of checking the old saves I had and used cheat-mode to solve the mystery of the rise of the Greeks. They must have been extremely lucky on huts :

-3050:
3 cities (probably 1 AT, 1 from nomads), 2 NONE horsemen, 3 techs

-2400:
4 cities (next one about to be built by nomad), 3 NONE horsemen, 4 techs

-1950:
5 cities, 1 trireme crossing the ocean east, 6 techs

-975:
8 cities (including formerly egypt Thebes), 11 techs

-500:
9 cities (AT on island 7), 14 techs

-125:
11 cities, 21 techs (they got some from me by then)


Seems like there is an advantage for the AI, making units NONE when they are from huts.

 

[Inkerman]

As above: in 500AD - Population 56 in 18 cities. 29 techs.
Just coming off a war against the Mongols which reduced them to 2 cities.
Again aiming at peaceful development.

520- Found Dhaman, Zohak.
540- Corinth(Greek), builds Great Library. Found Istak.
560- Found Jinjan.
580-
600- Persepolis builds Shakespeare's Theatre. Colosseum sold.
620-
640- Greeks develop Feudalism, and start Sun Tzu.
Discover Sanitation -> Invention.
Found Boraz.
660- Van Arbela-Samarkand, Beads, for 60g. Lux up to 20%.
680- WLTCD in 5 cities plus Persepolis. Persepolis builds Sewers. Sell temple.
Found Herat.
700- Persepolis size 13.
720- Persepolis = 14, builds Bank. Van, Bokhara-Gordium, Gold, for 300g.
740- Discover Invention -> Democracy. Persepolis = 15.
Van, Samarkand-Hamadan, Dye, for 48g.
Van, Dariush Kabir-Antioch Island, Silver, for 72g.
Van, Gordium-Karakorum(Mongol), Coal(und), for 82g.
760- Aztecs develop Navigation.
Arbela builds Pyramids. Persepolis = 16.
780- Discover Democracy -> University. Become Democracy. Persepolis = 17.
Van, Tyre-Sidon, Dye, for 60g.
800- Greeks nearly completed Sun Tzu. Persepolis = 18.
Van, Antioch Island - Bokhara, Beads, for 78g.
Give Wheel, Engineering, Bridge Building, Seafaring to Greeks.

820- Athens completes Sun Tzu. Persepolis = 19 (builds van), and that's nearly it for now (food limit.)
840- Discover University -> ToG. Persepolis = 20.
Have now got 2 of 6 triremes homed to Persepolis.
860- Persepolis = 21 (builds van), maxes for now.
880- Persepolis builds University.
Ask Mongols to withdraw and they do.
Van, Pasargadae-Persepolis, Gold, for 75g.
900- Discover ToG -> Chemistry
Swap Sanitation to Aztecs for Navigation. Give them University. Greeks get both from GL.
Van, Samaria-Gordium, Silver, for 77g.
920- Arbela completes Leonardo's Workshop. Triremes become caravels.
Lux to 40% for a bit of growth - maybe 1 person in each of 8 cities?
940- Discover Chemistry -> Economics. Persepolis makes van.
Give Democracy to Aztecs, Greeks get from GL. Give Navigation to Mongols.
Van, Ergili-Susa, Copper, for 70g.
960- Gordium builds Aqueduct.
Persepolis builds Isaac Newton's College.
980- Discover Economics -> Physics.
Get Mongols to withdraw again.
1000- Mongols develop Feudalism.
Van, Persepolis-Tenochtitlan, Copper, for 212g.

Stats.
48g. Supreme (and spotless.) Democracy. Total cost 29.
10 settler, 3 warrior, 4 phalanx, 2 archer, 3 crusaders, 6 caravel, 6 dips, 17 vans.
Pop: 158 (7.67m) in 24 cities. 37 techs.
Colossus, HG, Pyramids,
MPE, Mike's Copernicus, Shakespeare's,
Leonardo, Newton.
Others: LH, GL, SunTzu.

Aztecs: Enthusiastic, Peace. 1 city, 30 techs.
Greeks: Uncooperative, Peace. 7 cities, 30 techs. (Feudalism)
Mongols: Uncooperative, Peace. 3 cities, 25 techs. (Feudalism)

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Date Notes

-4000 Persepolis founded. Warrior started.
-3950 -> Alphabet
-3800 Warrior produced. Settler started.
-3600 Alphabet -> Code of Laws.
-3550 Advanced tribe founds Pasargadae. No more size 1 settler possible.
-3250 Code of Laws -> Bronze. Nomad from hut. This is the best hut luck I can recall.
-2950 Bronze -> Burial. First settler built.
-2800 Susa founded.
-2700 Ran into Mongol warrior. Declined exchange for Pottery. Peace. My power is Mighty.
-2450 Burial -> Monarchy.
-2300 Arbela founded.

Status at -2000
Population: 0.04M; Cities: 4; Techs: 4; Government: Despotism
Gold: 2; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 3 Settlers (1 None), 2 warriors
Goals: Monarchy, Trade
Egyptian: no contact
Greek: no contact
Mongol: no embassy

-1950 Monarchy -> Currency.
-1900 Antioch founded. Revolution started.
-1850 Monarchy established. T3L0S7
-1600 Currency -> Trade. Tarsus founded.
-1300 Trade -> Mapmaking.
-1200 Gordium founded.
-1000 Mapmaking -> Writing. T7L0S3. None archer form hut.

Status at -1000
Population: 0.22M; Cities: 7; Techs: 8; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 15; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders:
Units: 3 Settlers (1 None), 5 warriors, 1 None Archer, 1 van
Goals: Marco, settling other islands.
Egyptian: no contact
Greek: no contact
Mongol: no embassy

-0975 Bactra founded.
-0950 Marco built. Trade, Monarchy -> Egyptian (4) -> peace, Writing, Literacy, maps
Literacy, Monarchy, Currency -> Greek (5) -> peace, Mysticism, Wheel
Burial, Mapmaking, Wheel -> Mongol (3) -> Pottery, maps
-0925 Barbarian Trireme by Gordium. -> Philosophy. T3L0S7
-0900 Barbarian Archer lands.
-0875 Greeks and Egyptians declare war on each other. Barbarian archer kills warrior in Gordium.
-0850 Barbarian capture Gordium. Horseman from hut.
-0800 Kish founded as the first offshore city on island 5.
-0775 Mongols declare war when I ask for tribute. Greeks ignore me.
-0675 Greeks beat me to Philosophy. Philosophy -> Republic.
-0650 Tyre founded.
-0625 Gordium bribed back for 52g. Philosophy -> Mongol -> peace, Construction.
-0550 Construction -> Egyptian -> Republic. None Archer from hut.
-0525 -> Seafaring. Ceremonial Burial -> Egyptian -> Math.

Status at -0500
Population: 0.42M; Cities: 10; Techs: 17; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 7; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders: Marco
Units: 5 Settlers (1 None), 10 warriors, 3 Archers (2 None), 1 horse, 3 Triremes, 1 diplomat, 6 vans
Goals: Colossus, Hanging Gardens, settling islands 3 and 8.
Egyptian: 4 cities, 16 techs ;
Greek: 6 cities, 19 techs ;
Mongol: 2 cities, 14 techs ;

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Well, usually we post our games chapter by chapter and don't reveal the end date until later.

Indeed. The end date is not revealed because of the green star competition (earliest finish). You should not reveal your final score either.

The map is terrible, we really should have deserved some compensation (2nd settler or starting techs).

That only happens when your surrounding area is inferior compared to your rivals. In this case the map is bad everywhere. I tried to warn everyone in the game thread that at this size and lower the map generator tends to produce a lot of mountains and big continents. I tried to compensate for that as much as possible as explained there. Of course here we got a lot of jungle and swamp as well as mountains.

I don't think there is much point in going on and finish my game. Just too many things went the wrong way: Bad terrain, early mongol vicinitiy, greatly expanding greeks who managed to build 11 cities and HG and Sun Tzu by 1 AD. I was trying for EC, ...

I too am surprised at your decision. "Bad terrain, early mongol vicinitiy" has been the case for all of us not just you. You had a more extreme case of "greatly expanding greeks" but take a look at other logs and you see Greeks are a major power with many cities in all of our games. In my own game they had 6 cities in -950 when I built Marco and managed to beat me to Philosophy; they have also already started Hanging Gardens. Fortunately for me, Egyptians have so far managed to resist their attacks and are still in the game in -500. You had worse than usual hut luck where as the rest of us got quite lucky and got 1-2 advanced tribes and Nomads from the first few huts but that is no reason for quitting in the middle.

There indeed is much point in finishing your game; coming from behind is a fun satisfying challenge.

Any player can play with a good hand; a good player can play with any hand.

 

[Inkerman]

I've finished and submitted, with nothing very news-worthy from the post-1000AD period.

I had a choice between late conquest, and spaceship with a pet city and chose the spaceship as I had some RL time - but not enough for a mercurios wholesale transformation! The game ended with cities on most corners of the world, quite a few of them almost entirely dependent on harbours for food.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

-0450 Revolution started.
-0425 Republic established. T6L4S0
-0400 None Archer from hut.
-0375 Hanging Gardens built in the science city of Bactra. Damned Greeks change to Colossus. 3 cities celebrate.
-0350 Two more cities celebrate. Nomad from polar hut.
-0325 T3L7S0 to maintain celebrations.
-0300 One more city joins celebrations. Kerman founded on island 8. T6L4S0
-0275 Beads from Arbela to Memphis for 208 establishes the first trade route. T4L4S2
-0250 Seafaring -> Astronomy.
-0225 First structure built. Copper from Bactra to Kish for 132 establishes the first domestic route. Undemanded Beads to Thebes for 88.
-0200 Astronomy ->Navigation. Kharg founded on island 4.
-0175 Mongols sneak attack and lose a warrior. Have to buy the last 10 shields of Colossus to beat Greeks to it. Sirjan founded.
-0150 Colossus built. Spice to Heliopolis for 204.
-0125 Greeks build Lighthouse. Zabol founded.
-0100 Banking from hut. Seafaring -> Egyptian -> University.
-0050 Dezful founded.

Status at +1
Population: 1.4M; Cities: 15; Techs: 21; Government: Republic
Gold: 38; Cost: 5; Trade routes: 2D3F;
Wonders: Marco, Colossus, Hanging Gardens
Units: 5 Settlers (2 None), 10 warriors, 4 Archers (3 None), 1 horse, 3 Triremes, 1 diplomat, 7 vans
Footprint: 9 cities in Persia; 2 on 8; 1 on 1, 3, 4, 5
Goals: Continued trade with Egyptians, settling the SE part of Persia, keeping Mongols contained to the SW corner of Persia, exploring the rest of the world, Michelangelo.
Egyptian: 4 cities, 21 techs ;
Greek: 6 cities, 21 techs ; Lighthouse
Mongol: 2 cities, 14 techs ; war with me

 

[Ali Ardavan]

+0060 Navigation -> Physics. Horse lost in attack on Mongol chariot which is then killed by Archer. Seafaring -> Greek (5) -> maps. Hides to Egyptians for 124.
+0100 Chariot from polar hut.
+0120 Zahedan founded.
+0140 Copernicus built. Silk from science city to Thebes for 300.
+0160 Physics -> Theory of Gravity.
+0200 Greeks sneak attack and kill a van.
+0220 2x50g from hut.
+0260 Wine to Athens for 170.
+0280 50g from hut.
+0300 Theory of Gravity -> Atomic Theory. Copper to Sparta for 140.
+0320 Dye to Greeks for 112. Two barbarian horsemen from polar hut which disappear next turn.
+0380 Atomic Theory -> Horseback riding. Domestic delivery for 65.
+0420 Domestic Hides for 102. Greek Pharsalos bribed for 464g. Got 80g, Medicine, Granary, and 2 units. Vet Chariot lost in attack on Corinth.
+0440 Magellan built. Deliveries for 156, 87. Gladly accepted Mongol offer of Engineering for cease fire and 400g for peace. Physics, Atomic Theory -> Mongol -> maps.
+0460 Deliveries for 90, 300. Navigation -> Mongol -> Masonry. Navigation, Engineering -> Egyptian -> Horseback riding, Warrior Code.
+0480 Greeks build Shakespeare. -> Iron Working -> Polytheism. Deliveries for 60. Greek catapult bribed for 236g and used to kill a Phalanx. T2L4S4
+0500 Deliveries for 42, 50.

Status at +500
Population: 3.1M; Cities: 17; Techs: 31; Government: Republic
Gold: 123; Cost: 25; Trade routes: 13D11F;
Wonders: Marco, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Copernicus, Magellan
Units: 6 Settlers (2 None), 12warriors, 4 Archers (3 None), 2 Chariots, 1 Catapult, 2 Triremes, 2 Caravel, 3 diplomats, 12 vans
Footprint: 9 cities in Persia; 2 on 1, 3, 8; 1 on 4, 5
Goals: Continued trade with Egyptians, settling the SE part of Persia, keeping Mongols contained to the SW corner of Persia, exploring the rest of the world, Michelangelo, Bridge Building, Democracy, Engineers.
Egyptian: 4 cities, 25 techs ;
Greek: 6 cities, 24 techs ; Lighthouse, Shakespeare; war with me
Mongol: 3 cities, 20 techs ;

 

[Inkerman]

Ali @AD500 - not too different from my game. With the nominal deadline quite soon - currently next Monday (and Chief Eidgenossen and his Crowded Europe game waiting) I wonder what ending will be chosen? And will the fact that it is a Persian civilization make a difference.