GOTM 61 - second spoiler

civ_steve · Nov 26, 2006

GOTM 61 - second spoiler

So how did your Middle Ages go? Did your Mounted Warriors give you a good start on this era, or did you wait until later to show the AI who's the boss? Or are you playing a more enlightened game? Yeah, right!

Reading Requirements:

Must have contact with All remaining Civs.
Must be able to research an Industrial Age Technology.

Posting restrictions

No maps showing Industrial or Modern resources.
No discussion of Industrial Age (or later).

Megalou · Nov 26, 2006

I reached the Dark Ages in 925 BC and began sending MWs to the region north of the choke point. In 450 BC the Forbidden Palace in Grand River was finished and in 370 BC I flipped the palace to a town with the rather prosaic name "OK this will be big." The purpose was to get a few more towns to produce MWs/knights. It took a garrison of 13 to do the flip.

I sloppily founded a town on top of some iron and when knights were available I was too lazy to use the disconnect-reconnect-upgrade tactics. Instead I was to use my surplus money for my own private Temple of Artemis when after a long period of war I hurried temples everywhere.

This game was all about workers and I was not in a hurry to attack the Aztecs until there was a road to them. But one mistake was that I built too few workers for the area around "OK this will be big."

The conquest of the the contemptible low-life foreigners went well at first and after Zulu I built two main roads, one towards Egypt/Arabia/India and one towards China/Korea/France. But as I divided my troops they started to become scarce, and I stalled a bit about 200 tiles from the domination limit, right after the massive temple-rushing. The Germans even took Dehli from me and I had to give it up. In fact, declaring on the Germans was the mistake that caused the troops drought and I blush to say that I didn't take a single German town.

But eventually I got over the limit by four tiles, hurrying a cathedral and founding a town called "eke" the last turn. Beijing flipped, but I still had enough tiles thanks to eke.

I was at war with all civs at one time or another. Korea was my ally, but I backstabbed them at the end (exactly what they deserve for being such infidels of course.)

I am not going to reveal my finishing date, because I'm not submitting, but I can tell you that it was before 2051 AD, because if you don't beat that date I'm sure you won't get a medal anyway. :satan:

Chamnix · Nov 27, 2006

Once again, the Middle Ages were all about war. The wars started with archers and swordsmen since it took some time to get the horses hooked up. On the plus side, the massive barbarian uprising gave me plenty of elites, but I didnt have as much luck as I would have liked turning them into leaders. My first leader came in 570 BC and was used to rush the Pyramids, but there was a long drought after that.

In 530 BC, I finally got out of Despotism and into Monarchy.

In 390 BC my Golden Age started thanks to a Mounted Warrior victory.

Since reinforcements took so long to reach the front, I stuck with the ironless civs to avoid losing too many Mounted Warriors. Of course, I had to go through the Aztecs first, but then I skipped the Zulu (except for a few bites) and went after Egypt (their iron was disconnected by someone else, and they never got around to reconnecting it) then Arabia and India. My second Great Leader came in 50 AD and relocated my palace to the former Arabia. I should have just jumped my palace by hand earlier.

In 210 AD, I switched to Republic to speed research to Military Tradition.

In 270 AD, I got my third and final Great Leader to rush Leos.

I reached Military Tradition in 340 AD, and about 10 turns later, everyone else was dead. Conquest victory in 450 AD.

Megalou · Nov 27, 2006

I see your civ was even crueler than mine: "everyone else was dead." Well since you went for conquest I suppose you could starve the foreign citizens completely or raze everything out of sheer malignity. (Pardon my deliberate misunderstanding.)

Randy · Nov 27, 2006

Open Class, Going for 20K.

This is the first time I have ever gone for a 20K win. So feel free to point out my errors.

Year 410 BC start of MA with 23 culture/turn for a total of 1009.

In Founders City I have (20K site):
Temple.
The Pyramids.
The Colossus.
The Great Library
Palace.
Granary (from The Pyramids).
23 culture/turn for a total of 1009.
21 shields/turn with 1 going to corruption.
24 food/turn with 0 going for growth at Size 12.

Science is set to 0%. Im thinking that do to the small size of my empire and I have The Great Library I should be able to build up some cash to buy buildings in Founders City.

My short term goal was to fill the land to the chock point with Iroquois cities. This would give me 3 luxuries and both iron and horses. The process was very slow. I settled near the ivory and on the iron.

The Great Lighthouse, Hanging Garden, Library, and Colosseum were built in Founders City.

70BC Iroquois Republic is born.

250 AD Zulus get an archer and settler by the dyes but we settle first. Dye founded this is our 8th city. We then declare on Zulus and take two slaves. We also pay Egypt to fight for us. This was a short 20 turn war with no other contact from the Zulu.

330 AD Aztecs drop a settler and archer buy the horse chock point but I have a settler there to beat them by 1 turn. So Centralia founded by horses. No war I feel they are to close and we are way to weak to fight at this time.

With all the land I want in Iroquois hands I have my science back on. The combination of studying my self and The Great Library I stay ahead or even in the tech race. I sell and trade for techs after education. My study goal is to learn Music Theory and build JS Bachs first then Free Artistry with Shakespeares Theater.

480 AD Sistine Chapel built 52 culture/turn @ 3098.

700 AD war with Aztecs, I pay Egypt, Zulu, and Korea to help. The war was slow then Arabia joined on the side of Aztecs. This lost a lot of gold/turn I was getting from Arabia. I then got every other civ less Aztecs to declare on Arabia. This war goes into the IA. Arabia and Aztecs both had 1 beach landing next to the capital. Being in a Republic I dont need any MPs so all landing happen on the one grass tile in the NE. Im not using this tile until I go over size 12. That does not interrupt production and gives the AI no defense bonus.

720 AD JS Bachs Cathedral 60 culture/turn @ 4378
730 AD University 64 culture/turn @ 4442
890 AD Magellans Voyage 67 culture/turn @ 5469
1060 AD Shakespeares Theater 84 culture/turn @ 6735

1070 AD Ironhill Builds Forbidden Palace. So far Ive have had 0 leaders. This was a slow hand built project in a low production desert town. But now I have a very nice second core that over laps my second ring around the first core.

1160 Magnetism enter IA

In Founders City (20K sight) I have:
Palace.
Granary (from The Pyramids).
Temple.
Marketplace.
Library.
Courthouse.
Cathedral.
University.
Colosseum.
The Pyramids.
The Hanging Gardens.
The Colossus.
The Great Lighthouse.
The Great Library.
Sistine Chapel.
Magellans Voyage.
Shakespeares Theater.
JS Bachs Cathedral.

87 culture/turn for a total of 7590.
26 shields/turn with 1 going to corruption.
24 food/turn with 0 going for growth at Size 12.

ionimplant · Dec 5, 2006

Game: Classic GOTM 61
Date submitted: 2006-11-20
Reference number: 12846
Software Version: PtW 1.27f for Windows
Entry class: Open
Game status: Domination Victory for Iroquois
Game date: 650 AD
Firaxis score: 7043
Jason score: 10184
Time played: 14:52:36

second time to get Jason score above 10000. will try to improve my military game play.

klarius · Dec 7, 2006

Predator
Just a quick combined spoiler. didn't have much free time so the game took pretty long - forgot the details.

Ancient age went well. Peacefully build up some towns and researched.
Took out the choke camp pretty quickly and had contact to 3 civs soon after that.
Traded a lot (techs and contacts) and entered MA 1000BC,still researching monarchy.
First phony war 975BC (Arabs declared).
Started GA 490BC on the Aztecs.
Build GLight in capital during GA (290BC), hoping for GL to jump palace.
Aztecs down to 1 city in 250BC. Real war on Arabs starts (ship chain is ready).
In the next few turns (while slowly taking a few Arab cities), do the usual diplomacy with lots of alliances -> declaration from Zulu, just one turn before I would have declared on them (170BC).
All going well so far, MWs taking some toll, but capture everything they should, just no leader showing up for palace jump.
110AD Arabia is destroyed. I would love to jump the palace to Arabia, but I still need the GLight in Salamanca :cry:

. BTW, I have engineering (researched) by now and traded for monotheism, both pretty useless in hindsight.
130AD Aztecs lose their last city (to Iroqois

)
170AD same fate for Zulu.
I have acquired feudalism and go chivalry full steam to support conquest. Next turn I'm not sure anymore dial research down to rush more :crazyeye:

.
310AD Indians are destroyed. Looking already bleak for conquest. Germany has no jungle roads. We still haven't got a leader, so military is still coming via ship chain from the old core. Somewhere around here, I give up on conquest. Too much jungle w/o roads. And too many pikes showing up lately.
The rest is rushing some temples and taking bites of everybody left, for domination victory in 380AD. Still no leader so my FP is still 3 tiles away from palace. :rolleyes:

All fighting done with MWs - could for sure have gained a few turns by not researching and just (short-) rushing MWs.

archphoenix · Dec 15, 2006

1295AD diplomatic ..err.. LOSS!!
:aargh:

every one is polite to me,
I should DOW !!

Paul#42 · Dec 15, 2006

going for conquest

Here's part 1

Part 2 in epic:

Spoiler :

In short:
Our gpt-reputation was spoiled early after QSC, but MP- and rop-reputation were kept clean till near the end. We signed some peace treaties for towns, speeding up conquest of Aztecs, Arabs, Chinese, Koreans and India.
We encountered several flips, most without losing units but some that took up to three turns to retake :mad:

I did not research after QSC, got to chivalry by trade and by TGL but decided to save my money instead of going for MT. I barely had enough money to upgrade my MW to knights.
Our capital stayed where it was and FP was rushed in Tenochtitlan. Second core was developed slowly and did not reach its potential till the end - with more RL time to focus on that a victory some ten turns earlier was definitely possible. :aargh:

I played real sloppy towards the end and faced Ptw-crashes three times for the same reason: I let a barb capture an undefended town with walls and barracks by TGW and Sun Tzu's. Ptw crashed immediately trying to raze on of those and I had no other chance than reloading from autosave and razing the town (twice) or killing the barb (once). I hope this is not judged an exploit - I did not profit at all from it plus it costed lots of nerves, especially in the late game when turns were exhaustingly long... :wallbash:

All in all I enjoyed both the map and the Mounties. Although several of them ended the game on the long road to the far away battle fields in France and Germany - 12 turns movement is quite a journey. :ack:

In the end (as always) I fell several turns short of chamnix' result - but I am gradually catching up :rolleyes:

The result:

Entry class: Predator
Game status: Conquest Victory for Iroquois
Game date: 490 AD
Firaxis score: 7766
Jason score: 10812
Time played: 25:35:22

Chamnix · Dec 15, 2006

Paul #42 said:
In the end (as always) I fell several turns short of chamnix' result - but I am gradually catching up

But you got a higher Jason score than I did :thumbsup:

.

PaperBeetle · Dec 15, 2006

Paul#42 said:
I did not research after QSC, got to chivalry by trade and by TGL but decided to save my money instead of going for MT. I barely had enough money to upgrade my MW to knights.

Seems obtuse to me. If I had decided not to go to Mil Trad, I think I would have preferred to spend my gold short rushing braves, rather than upgrading them to knights. To me that upgrade is as bad as pike -> musket.
But I did go to Mil Trad, and by the time I got there you guys were already finishing your conquests, so what do I know?

Paul#42 · Dec 16, 2006

PaperBeetle said:
Seems obtuse to me. If I had decided not to go to Mil Trad, I think I would have preferred to spend my gold short rushing braves, rather than upgrading them to knights. To me that upgrade is as bad as pike -> musket.
But I did go to Mil Trad, and by the time I got there you guys were already finishing your conquests, so what do I know?

You might be right... :blush:

I guess it all started with the first MGL - I could not stand to see this elite* unit around - it almost cried for being upgraded :mischief:

However I did not hurry upgrading too much, most upgrades happened after at least one fight when the MW was wounded and upgrading was the quickest cure. And I was also short rushing casually - most in 5-spt-towns.

Let me do some maths:
Knights:
Upgrading to a knight costs 40g, almost no extra time (after 4-5 road moves or the unit was injured). Gains one point on attack (and defense).
In a 10-spt-town we got 8 attack points in 6 turns for 80g.
In a 5-spt-town we got 4 attack points for 40g in 6 turns. (This is not completely true, I did some short rushing)

Mounties:
Short rushing in 10-spt-towns is 40g also each, in 6 turns we get 9 attack points for 120g.
In a 5-spt-town we could build 2 MW in 6 turns but 20 shields cost 80g for each, we got 6 attack points for 160g in 6 turns. That amount would have been tough for me to spend frequently. :hmm:

In the mid game I was also near or over the limit of free unit supply where the benefit of fewer stronger units also values higher :old:

- however in the end I had enough free supply left.

What do I conclude :confused:

?
I guess you need to do the right mixture. Especially to upgrade injured units is well worth the money, against pikes and even fortified spears the extra attack point is also valuable. And if you spread your troops, the extra defense point is of some value, too. I had several defensive wins with my knights.

:crazyeye:

At first I had thought you got me, but now I re-established the feeling I had chosen the proper strategy

Chamnix · Dec 16, 2006

Not wanting to quibble :mischief:

, but shouldn't the mounted warrior to knight upgrade be 120 gold in C3C (or 60 with Leo's)? And in the 5 spt towns, you would typically only short-rush 15 shields for 60 gold (not 20 shields for 80 gold).

I'm with PaperBeetle - I don't think knights are cost-effective when you are the Iroquois (at least not without Leo's

).

EDIT - Oops, did I forget which game we were playing again :blush:

? Thanks Megalou!

Megalou · Dec 17, 2006

It all depends on the situation. If you are overrunning a primitive AI, a large number of cheap troops is all that counts. If you need special task forces, their stats make a difference. (Chamnix, I'm not going to correct anything in your last post, because I'm sure you'll see it.) :old:

Paul#42 · Dec 18, 2006

Chamnix, you are right of course. :wallbash:

Okay, now I lost confidence in my approach again :mischief:

However it was fun (as long as I did not know I was doing it the wrong way)...

GOTM 61 - second spoiler

civ_steve

Deity

GOTM 61 - second spoiler

Megalou

Money is the currency of fear

Chamnix

Chasing Time

Megalou

Money is the currency of fear

Randy

Prince

Attachments

ionimplant

Prince

klarius

... !

archphoenix

Prince

Paul#42

flyball chaser

Chamnix

Chasing Time

PaperBeetle

Emperor

Paul#42

flyball chaser

Chamnix

Chasing Time

Megalou

Money is the currency of fear

Paul#42

flyball chaser

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